Originally Posted by ESwift

Just steering clear of the arrogant vendors is a huge step towards getting a quality product

Originally Posted by Bitterroot Diesel

He's a full time self employed mechanic now. Tuning has taken a back seat to doing something that pays the bills more effectively.

Originally Posted by Bitterroot Diesel

Just facts and confidence. No need to get triggered Eric.

Originally Posted by ESwift

Agreed

what would your top 3 size choices be?

Originally Posted by RacinJasonWV

I spoke to Andrew back when we were trying to figure out the turbo things. He was very helpful and a nice fella. Seemed to be super busy, which says something for his ability. And he took time out of his day to talk with me about turbos & tuning while he wasn’t trying to sell me anything.

Already decided long ago that AA will be my choice if going with custom tunes in the future. I’ll wait for them if needed. I’ll also skip the middle man and get them directly from him.

Originally Posted by RacinJasonWV

...Pleasant vendors are worth waiting for.

Originally Posted by cleatus12r

There are reasons fewer people do it. I would have to say the biggest problems these days are, in no particular order, as follows:

1. Inconsistent injector building standards. I have had good luck with the three I have used in the past. I have used one exclusively for the last 7 years so I don't know what's out there anymore. However, one guy's xxx/xx% injector will not be the same as anyone else offers in that "size". They're like jeans. One pair of 30-inch waist jeans will cut a guy in half while another brand in the same 30" size requires a belt to keep a guy from looking like a gangsta.

2. Forums and "social media". Reading testimonials from people having perfect manners from their 643K-mile, 250/173.66% injector-equipped dually that gets 34 MPG causes others to expect miracles from a nearly 30 year old platform. None of these trucks are anywhere near new and I suspect that if we were to take a mileage average, just in this subforum with currently-active members, the mileage of these things would probably approach 250-275K. This injection system was terribly inconsistent when these engines rolled off of the assembly line so to expect it to be better (or not worse) after 25+ years is insanity. Again, tuning from one truck's acceptable operation and throwing the same tuning on another and hoping for the same result is a recipe for frustration.

3. Customers who won't pay for live tuning. I am definitely not accusing anyone here of being cheap nor am I saying that live tuning is the end-all solution to driveability problems. Think a minute about how tunes are created. There has to be an initial setup used before any calibrations can be written, a benchmark so-to-speak. A guy calls with a set of 238/100% injectors and wants some tunes. However, the tune-writing person has personally tuned a 160/80% and maybe something a little smaller or bigger in the AA/hybrid arena. There's nothing in the tuning software or PCM that allows a guy to select flow rates and the software just makes **** up that works. Until a baseline tune for a set of injectors is saved and used to build from, it's a wild goose chase to modify a tune for a 160/80% and make it a tune for a 238/100% that runs well. It'll run but it will not run good......then the customer is pissed that the tune needs revisions and the calibration engineer is frustrated because in some cases he's throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Without customer trucks coming to the tuner, it's an exercise in futility to try to tune for anything than stock injectors or for injectors in the guy's personal fleet (if he has more than one or two) or find a few guys in his town with stuff installed that he can play with for a while. Personally buying and installing injectors in different trucks and then playing musical chairs with them in the different model years (for different PCM families) really gets old. Over the years I've bounced a dozen sets of injectors from 95 to 97CA, to E99, to 99.5-01, then to 02-03 because the tuning for them is all different for the same injector. The copy/paste trick gets values moved from one to the next but the PCMs don't calculate the values the same between hardware families......so one really has to write tuning for each and every one. Then there's the manual transmission varieties that require different low load/idle stuff to play nice.

4. ROI. It's not cheap to start tuning ANYTHING. The hardware and software are out there but can a guy realistically make a living just tuning? Sure....if tuning is all he does.....on a multitude of vehicle platforms....with a chassis dyno on hand that takes most of the danger out of road-testing a vehicle that belongs to someone else. I've mentioned it before but tuning is a tedious task. Nothing beats staring at a computer screen for hours at a time - especially when perfection is expected but pretty much unobtainable from a thousand miles away on a vehicle with unknown health problems or condition - on the first of many tries.

Truthfully, it would also be easier if injector builders stuck with a maximum of three available injector sizes and quit reinventing the wheel looking for the next best mousetrap

Originally Posted by cln-nsty

The information posted by members on this site and the Tech-folders are truly a gift to us all. I hope everyone on this site reads your post and take it for the compassion for others that it took to write it. Your explanation of the variables involved in Tunning for these trucks should be a must read for anyone considering injector upgrades. Thank you for reminding us to stop and think about the People behind the venders we expect so much from.

Originally Posted by Wes444

Too bad they are also untested, unproven, and no tuner has any tunes for them
Other than that, they are perfect