Lazy Daze E-450 questions
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 134
Likes: 25
From: Placentia, CA
Lazy Daze E-450 questions
I'm going to look at a 2002 Lazy Daze build on an E-450 with about 40K miles. Has the V-10 in it. Is there anything specific engine/chassis wise I should be looking at, concerned about or ask owner questions on?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 134
Likes: 25
From: Placentia, CA
Yeah...all the typical pre-purchase inspection stuff but just didn't know if there are any "known" issues with this type of motor/chassis that I should be concerned about. I do recall hearing about the V10's and spark plug issues but don't know specifically if this is something I should be looking at.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 21,253
Likes: 1,656
From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
Repeatedly we have questions about a Ford cutaway that's part of some motorhome build where its mentioned who built the "house" portion---just as frequently we have to remind those contributors that has absolutely nothing to do with engine/chassis problems that might arise especially when purchased used. I suppose it can be argued such information is good to know but in the end it means next to nothing.
Because you don't detail what "spark plug issue" you mention its difficult to offer anything specific. Yes some Modular Motors had or can develop ejected spark plugs but for the most part that was in their earlier years and/or poor maintenance over its time running. Many issues reported with motor home conversions can be tracked directly back to their low running time which seems to contribute to deterioration of parts due that infrequent use.
You're buying a used vehicle so keep that in mind. Accumulated mileage AND records of maintenance would be my concerns; oil changes, spark plug/boot renewal, transmission flush, brake system maintenance are a few things too.
Because you don't detail what "spark plug issue" you mention its difficult to offer anything specific. Yes some Modular Motors had or can develop ejected spark plugs but for the most part that was in their earlier years and/or poor maintenance over its time running. Many issues reported with motor home conversions can be tracked directly back to their low running time which seems to contribute to deterioration of parts due that infrequent use.
You're buying a used vehicle so keep that in mind. Accumulated mileage AND records of maintenance would be my concerns; oil changes, spark plug/boot renewal, transmission flush, brake system maintenance are a few things too.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,453
Likes: 2,630
From: Near Salt Lake City
20 years old, I would be concerned about the timing chain, tensioners and guides
Just plan on replacing all that (about 3K)
Service the transmission
Replace the brake pads and check the rotor thickness, check for warped rotors
Just plan on replacing all that (about 3K)
Service the transmission
Replace the brake pads and check the rotor thickness, check for warped rotors
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 134
Likes: 25
From: Placentia, CA
Great info...thanks. Hopefully he has all the service records. The low running time concerns me and I'll use the timing chain/tensioners and guides service as a negotiating point.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,259
Likes: 438
From: IL
Biggest problems we have around the Illinois area is the rust, these vehicles E & F series have a problem with the oil dipstick tubes rusting out and the exhaust manifold gaskets going bad, manifolds cracking and the manifold studs and nuts rusting away and snapping off, so depending on what part of the country you live in, crawl up under the vehicle and take a good look for rust problems.
Also, If your E450 is like my F350, I believe your fuel pump module is integrated into the Dash cluster board so that may be a problem down the road also. You just never really know what's going to happen with a 20 year old vehicle.
Also, If your E450 is like my F350, I believe your fuel pump module is integrated into the Dash cluster board so that may be a problem down the road also. You just never really know what's going to happen with a 20 year old vehicle.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 134
Likes: 25
From: Placentia, CA
So I'm going to pickup this rig this afternoon. It's actually a purchase for a friend of mine so I'll be driving it from Socal to her in Norcal tomorrow.
Had all the service records since new, every oil change, tires, alignments, repairs, recalls...even on the generator. This is a very well cared for RV and the bottom side showed no signs of any rust (probably because it lived most of it's life in the Socal desert area). They just did the timing belt replacement (not the tensioner), radiator flush and hoses replaced, fuel pump, tires, batteries (for the motorhome part). The inside was mint looking, looks almost brand new, they put in new carpet but left a lot of the original 2002 "vintage" interior accents in that actually look kind of cool.
Thanks again for everyone advice.
Had all the service records since new, every oil change, tires, alignments, repairs, recalls...even on the generator. This is a very well cared for RV and the bottom side showed no signs of any rust (probably because it lived most of it's life in the Socal desert area). They just did the timing belt replacement (not the tensioner), radiator flush and hoses replaced, fuel pump, tires, batteries (for the motorhome part). The inside was mint looking, looks almost brand new, they put in new carpet but left a lot of the original 2002 "vintage" interior accents in that actually look kind of cool.
Thanks again for everyone advice.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 134
Likes: 25
From: Placentia, CA
Sorry...meant serpentine belt. I drove the rig from Orange County up to Fresno...absolutely no issues. Chugged along up the 5/grapevine at 50+ no issues. Did 70 most of the way as I wasn't paying for the gas...ha ha. She was very impressed with it and the only two issues we found after the long trip were one of the interior lights needs a new ballast (she will probably to an upgrade on all of them) and the door keys do not match the ignition key. Original owner forgot to give them to me and is sending them up to her.
8th Gear
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Check the spark plugs. Spark plugs loosen and then blow out on E350 and E450 V-10's from the late 1990's to about 2003. The problem seems to be that are too few threads in the plug holes and on the spark plugs, apparently only about 4 threads holding these plugs in these aluminum heads on early models. Ford made some changes over the years to address the problem but it is hard to get reliable information as to exactly what was done when and how effective it was. What is clear is that Ford eventually introduced a redesigned spark plug and increased the depth of the spark plug threads in the heads. The latter change was supposedly made for the 2003 model year but it is hard to pin down exactly when due to vagaries of the production process.
Ford supposedly now recommends plug changes or at least inspection and retorque every 30K miles. Repairs can be made. Ford apparently prefers new heads, for several thousand dollars. But there is ample evidence that simpler repairs are effective. All involve inserts in the damaged plug hole into which a new plug is installed. There is a Ford approved hardened aluminum insert. But there are also many reports of good results with Timeserts and with whatever blownoutsparkplug.com does. Whatever the approach it seems wise to have the work done by someone who's done it before and has had success.
Also, check the rear axle seals for leaks and for sticking rear caliper slides.
Ford supposedly now recommends plug changes or at least inspection and retorque every 30K miles. Repairs can be made. Ford apparently prefers new heads, for several thousand dollars. But there is ample evidence that simpler repairs are effective. All involve inserts in the damaged plug hole into which a new plug is installed. There is a Ford approved hardened aluminum insert. But there are also many reports of good results with Timeserts and with whatever blownoutsparkplug.com does. Whatever the approach it seems wise to have the work done by someone who's done it before and has had success.
Also, check the rear axle seals for leaks and for sticking rear caliper slides.
Last edited by RA122123; Nov 1, 2022 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Add more info
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 21,253
Likes: 1,656
From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
Check the spark plugs. Spark plugs loosen and then blow out on E350 and E450 V-10's from the late 1990's to about 2003. The problem seems to be that are too few threads in the plug holes and on the spark plugs, apparently only about 4 threads holding these plugs in these aluminum heads on early models. Ford made some changes over the years to address the problem but it is hard to get reliable information as to exactly what was done when and how effective it was. What is clear is that Ford eventually introduced a redesigned spark plug and increased the depth of the spark plug threads in the heads. The latter change was supposedly made for the 2003 model year but it is hard to pin down exactly when due to vagaries of the production process.
Too many myths and misunderstood causes of spark plug ejection in the Modular Motors. While its an inconvenience when/if it happens this bit about 4 threads being the sole cause is bunk. I have a 2000 E-250 w/5.4 engine approaching 297K miles that has never had a spark plug issue. Of course I DIY chaning those and use what's become a widely accepted procedure. Doing this job correctly seems to be the most reliable cure.
Ford supposedly now recommends plug changes or at least inspection and retorque every 30K miles. Repairs can be made. Ford apparently prefers new heads, for several thousand dollars. But there is ample evidence that simpler repairs are effective. All involve inserts in the damaged plug hole into which a new plug is installed. There is a Ford approved hardened aluminum insert. But there are also many reports of good results with Timeserts and with whatever blownoutsparkplug.com does. Whatever the approach it seems wise to have the work done by someone who's done it before and has had success.
Timesert are an accepted repair part, most shops will charge about $400 per cylinder but you must specify Timesert or Cal-Van when possible.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,453
Likes: 2,630
From: Near Salt Lake City
Stick with glass?
The lack of threads
That was the cause and having more is the fix (most heads I have examined have 3 1/2 threads)
The updated heads have more threads (7 or 8) and the thread insert repair procedure also adds threads
That was the problem, ( the inadequate torque theory is a factor on tuned vehicles but not the cause)
11 years and several vehicle models affected
There are several TSB's on this, and 07-21-2 comes to mind but the TSB's started in 2002 or earlier
"They all don't blow out " is what we used to tell people. Just yours today
The lack of threads
That was the cause and having more is the fix (most heads I have examined have 3 1/2 threads)
The updated heads have more threads (7 or 8) and the thread insert repair procedure also adds threads
That was the problem, ( the inadequate torque theory is a factor on tuned vehicles but not the cause)
11 years and several vehicle models affected
There are several TSB's on this, and 07-21-2 comes to mind but the TSB's started in 2002 or earlier
"They all don't blow out " is what we used to tell people. Just yours today
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 286
From: Eastern TN
Interesting stuff here - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ly_8K0M6uA
Mention of 2-thread and 3-thread heads but I don’t know what that means.
Sixto
07 E350 5.4 189K miles
Mention of 2-thread and 3-thread heads but I don’t know what that means.
Sixto
07 E350 5.4 189K miles
8th Gear
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Last edited by RA122123; Nov 2, 2022 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Typo