Brakes shutter when stopping
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7th Gear
Joined: Dec 2021
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Brakes shutter when stopping
Hi, I just finished restoring my 74' High Boy and my brakes shutter when stopping, usually more when stopping from a higher speed / harder stop. Dana 60 in the rear (drums) and 44 hd closed knuckle (drums) in the front. All 4 brake drums, brake shoes and components are new. Any Ideas? Thank you in advance for your response.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Are you 100% sure you have the brake shoes on correctly? Sometimes the smaller (shorter) and or bigger (longer) ones, called (Primary and Secondary shoes) gets put on incorrectly, meaning on the wrong side. As in the front and rear side of each wheel. I am pretty sure there is a difference, but it has been a while since I did the rear drums on a Dana 60. I just seem to remember that as a possibility. And it has been an even longer time since I messed with front drums brakes.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Well new parts should be good, but we all know that new parts are really just different parts that are supposed to be in better condition, but sometime are not. Did you NOT have this issue before the brake job? Or was the shutter the cause for the brake job to be done. Did you open up the brake system and replace the wheel cylinders? Proper brake bleed accomplished?
Condition of the master cylinder and power brake booster (do you have power brakes?). Condition of vacuum lines. I am sure you do not want to take the brake drum off again, but if you do, can you find a center fixed point to take some measurements from center to outer edge to confirm your out of round theory?
Condition of the master cylinder and power brake booster (do you have power brakes?). Condition of vacuum lines. I am sure you do not want to take the brake drum off again, but if you do, can you find a center fixed point to take some measurements from center to outer edge to confirm your out of round theory?
Thread Starter
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7th Gear
Joined: Dec 2021
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Thank you for your replies, Brakes worked 10 months ago when I began the frame off restoration. All new brakes line, hub, shoes & components. Old master cylinder & booster. I'm pulling the drums off right now to triple check brake shoe placement is correct. My understanding is the big shoe is on the back.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 50,186
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Well if I knew for sure I would tell ya, I am going to go check my OEM dealership maint manuals and see if it says anything in there on their installation. If I can find any thing that covers that specific part install, I will let you know. Only other item in the system not talked about, is the proportional valve, also called a combination valve.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 995
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Yep long shoe to the rear.
Can you tell if shuddering is coming from front or rear?
Can you feel anything in the steering wheel?
What happens if you gradually apply only the E-brake while moving?
Does it pull one way or the other when you brake?
Make sure you do not have any loose or incorrectly installed suspension components.
I'll usually have new brake drums checked for truenesss and being centered with hub. Just don't trust aftermarket especially if made in china.
Can you tell if shuddering is coming from front or rear?
Can you feel anything in the steering wheel?
What happens if you gradually apply only the E-brake while moving?
Does it pull one way or the other when you brake?
Make sure you do not have any loose or incorrectly installed suspension components.
I'll usually have new brake drums checked for truenesss and being centered with hub. Just don't trust aftermarket especially if made in china.
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7th Gear
Joined: Dec 2021
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Thanks again for your replies. Feels like the shutting comes from the rear. I confirmed the shoes are on correct. With the truck raised and tires off I started the truck and put in gear to see if there is any wobble at the drums and sure enough the passenger side has a noticeable wobble. I adjusted the shoes till the drum drags and spun the drum. I could feel the brake drag and let go and drag again. Must be an out of round drum. That's my assumption at this point and I'll order another one.
I'll update the post after I order another drum. Thanks again!
I'll update the post after I order another drum. Thanks again!
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: The Shenandoah Valley
Thank you for your replies, Brakes worked 10 months ago when I began the frame off restoration. All new brakes line, hub, shoes & components. Old master cylinder & booster. I'm pulling the drums off right now to triple check brake shoe placement is correct. My understanding is the big shoe is on the back.
Last edited by tbear853; Aug 12, 2022 at 01:14 PM. Reason: I see already answered, my bad.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
A couple of famous quotes from a FTE member to help you thru this.
“The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”
"Quality of parts are like oats. There are new oats and used oats. New oats can be bought at feed stores, used oats can be found out on the road, after the horse passes by."
Better luck on the next drum you get.
“The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”
"Quality of parts are like oats. There are new oats and used oats. New oats can be bought at feed stores, used oats can be found out on the road, after the horse passes by."
Better luck on the next drum you get.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 291
Likes: 59
From: Willamette Valley
Thanks again for your replies. Feels like the shutting comes from the rear. I confirmed the shoes are on correct. With the truck raised and tires off I started the truck and put in gear to see if there is any wobble at the drums and sure enough the passenger side has a noticeable wobble. I adjusted the shoes till the drum drags and spun the drum. I could feel the brake drag and let go and drag again. Must be an out of round drum. That's my assumption at this point and I'll order another one.
I'll update the post after I order another drum. Thanks again!
I'll update the post after I order another drum. Thanks again!
Laughing Gas
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 360
From: Anderson, California
Shuddering could also be hard linings.
About 20-some years back I began using standard linings because they seems more user-friendly and smooth feel to the pedal.
Hopefully your issues are just an out-of -round drum.
keep us posted on the results of the new drum.
About 20-some years back I began using standard linings because they seems more user-friendly and smooth feel to the pedal.
Hopefully your issues are just an out-of -round drum.
keep us posted on the results of the new drum.
Cross-Country
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 87
Likes: 11
This just happened to me. Same scenario, after the brake job it would jutter so bad that more and more rust would fall off the bottom. I narrowed it down by disconnecting the brake lines to each rear drum one at a time. Found out that one new drum from NAPA was not round. They replaced it and it is all smooth now.
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,387
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From: Northern California
I had a few similar experiences over years. Basically the drums or rotors feel ‘warped’ right out of the box. So I’d take them in to be turned and they smoothed right out. Now I do so before leaving the store.
I have even had friendly arguments with the guy in the brake shop telling me turning new rotors or drums isn’t necessary so I made a deal; if they needed turned, it was free otherwise I’d pay. I haven’t paid on any of those bets yet.
I don’t know why this occurs but I suspect the manufacturer machines before the parts fully cool down from being casted so it warps. I have found a statement on motorcraft/genuine ford rotor/drums that says in effect that they have been pre-machined and turning isn’t necessary to save the technician/customer time and money; this is the only brand I haven’t experienced this issue with but last I check this brand doesn’t make the brake parts for older applications.
I have even had friendly arguments with the guy in the brake shop telling me turning new rotors or drums isn’t necessary so I made a deal; if they needed turned, it was free otherwise I’d pay. I haven’t paid on any of those bets yet.
I don’t know why this occurs but I suspect the manufacturer machines before the parts fully cool down from being casted so it warps. I have found a statement on motorcraft/genuine ford rotor/drums that says in effect that they have been pre-machined and turning isn’t necessary to save the technician/customer time and money; this is the only brand I haven’t experienced this issue with but last I check this brand doesn’t make the brake parts for older applications.
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