Front add-a-leaf recommendations needed
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
Did you get a little bump in ride height with the new Daytons?
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: Wilton, IA
We have an add-a-leaf on the front of a ‘94.
It didn’t do a lot.
It did add about 1” of height.
I know most guys say not to do it but we have not had any issues.
But to be honest with you I think the only thing the add-a-leaf did was add height caused by the thickness of the spring it’s self. It is not doing anything else. The spring is not touching the other leaf-Springs.
It didn’t do a lot.
It did add about 1” of height.
I know most guys say not to do it but we have not had any issues.
But to be honest with you I think the only thing the add-a-leaf did was add height caused by the thickness of the spring it’s self. It is not doing anything else. The spring is not touching the other leaf-Springs.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
I don't have access to the factory ride height specs, but that is well within the typical front-rear variation of light 4x4 trucks. You're allowed up to 5/8" side-to-side difference in wheel arch height for the 80/97 F-250 and F-350 w/ front leaf springs, so if you can't measure any variation at all it's unlikely there is anything wrong with the springs. If you're seeing a notable variation in tire wear and camber angle, most likely you have a bent or worn suspension component closer to the wheel end than the spring is.
Things I'd look into, in this order:
Wheel bearing play- are the retainer nuts tight?
Kingpin wear if your truck is equipped with them
Caster/camber cam on the right side, if your truck has one, is indexed correctly- not unheard of for someone to remove it to replace a ball joint, forget to mark it first, then install it wrong
Possibility the PO threw on a pre-worn tire before you bought this
Use a tape measure to take rough measurements, then see if you can get them closer to 1 or 2 degrees positive by moving the cam. Eventually an alignment shop should dial everything in with a Hunter machine, but until you find the problem a tape measure is perfectly adequate for your purposes.
I see what you're talking about BTW, just took a second look at Post No. 1 and the minus camber on the RH front wheel is hella off. If it's so bad you can tell just from a picture, something is seriously wrong and you're right to be concerned.
Things I'd look into, in this order:
Wheel bearing play- are the retainer nuts tight?
Kingpin wear if your truck is equipped with them
Caster/camber cam on the right side, if your truck has one, is indexed correctly- not unheard of for someone to remove it to replace a ball joint, forget to mark it first, then install it wrong
Possibility the PO threw on a pre-worn tire before you bought this
Use a tape measure to take rough measurements, then see if you can get them closer to 1 or 2 degrees positive by moving the cam. Eventually an alignment shop should dial everything in with a Hunter machine, but until you find the problem a tape measure is perfectly adequate for your purposes.
I see what you're talking about BTW, just took a second look at Post No. 1 and the minus camber on the RH front wheel is hella off. If it's so bad you can tell just from a picture, something is seriously wrong and you're right to be concerned.
Yeah that negative camber is so bad on the right front that you don't even need a tape measure, you can just eyeball it. I was prepared to go playing with camber adjustment bushings but then someone (can't remember if it was here on one of the facebook groups) said that normal spring wear and subsequent loss of ride height can cause a ton of negative camber. You're right though, it is odd that it is far worse on the passenger side and almost non-existent on the driver side yet the ride heights are almost identical. I will have to pull it apart and check the bearings and retainer nuts. It's got ball joints and according to my layman's "testing" they seem tight and normal.
I found a good deal on some HD replacement front springs but the problem is, I don't want to jack up my front ride height so high that I get other alignment issues. Right now the truck drives perfect down the road, no wander, no pull and perfectly smooth and that's with this huge amount of negative camber on just one side. If I just fix the camber with a bushing, I'm still putting the weight of a 6.9 and a plow on old old leaf springs that look a little saggy.
Not sure what to do.
Tuned
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 480
Likes: 141
From: NJ
I found a good deal on some HD replacement front springs but the problem is, I don't want to jack up my front ride height so high that I get other alignment issues. Right now the truck drives perfect down the road, no wander, no pull and perfectly smooth and that's with this huge amount of negative camber on just one side. If I just fix the camber with a bushing, I'm still putting the weight of a 6.9 and a plow on old old leaf springs that look a little saggy.
Not sure what to do.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 884
Likes: 7
If you don't care about ride, and the steering is tight is your concern tire wear or looks?
If it's tire wear, I'd be prepared to just go through the whole axle. As said above, if your springs are tired it's guaranteed you have worn out bushings too - 3 on each spring/shackle, one for each traction beam. If a guy is replacing those and getting an alignment, well might as well do tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Unless you have a local shop with lifetime alignment it's a major hassle and expense to align if you replace parts as each component wears out.
If it's tire wear, I'd be prepared to just go through the whole axle. As said above, if your springs are tired it's guaranteed you have worn out bushings too - 3 on each spring/shackle, one for each traction beam. If a guy is replacing those and getting an alignment, well might as well do tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Unless you have a local shop with lifetime alignment it's a major hassle and expense to align if you replace parts as each component wears out.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
If you don't care about ride, and the steering is tight is your concern tire wear or looks?
If it's tire wear, I'd be prepared to just go through the whole axle. As said above, if your springs are tired it's guaranteed you have worn out bushings too - 3 on each spring/shackle, one for each traction beam. If a guy is replacing those and getting an alignment, well might as well do tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Unless you have a local shop with lifetime alignment it's a major hassle and expense to align if you replace parts as each component wears out.
If it's tire wear, I'd be prepared to just go through the whole axle. As said above, if your springs are tired it's guaranteed you have worn out bushings too - 3 on each spring/shackle, one for each traction beam. If a guy is replacing those and getting an alignment, well might as well do tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Unless you have a local shop with lifetime alignment it's a major hassle and expense to align if you replace parts as each component wears out.
If you expect to have the plow on for a significant portion of the time, then a new set of aftermarket springs isn't the worst idea in the world. But if it was my truck I would want to know precisely why the camber issue exists, before making a decision about how best to address it. There's gotta be something seriously f***ed in there somewhere. Another thought that just occurred to me, what about the rubber bushing where the I-beam attaches to the engine cradle? Might be worth a good look.
I will look into that rubber bushing where the I-beam attaches as you mentioned. Brand new to the TTB axle, so at the present moment I have no idea what you're referring to - but I'll find out.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
Man those pivot bushings look like fun...
I ordered a set of polyurethane replacements. The more I read about these bushings, the more I think you guys might be onto something. If one of those bushings is shot it would explain why I only have a camber issue on one side. It would also explain why I have a minor "creak" when turning the wheel at a stop. Definitely a good place to start, but man doesn't look like fun.
I ordered a set of polyurethane replacements. The more I read about these bushings, the more I think you guys might be onto something. If one of those bushings is shot it would explain why I only have a camber issue on one side. It would also explain why I have a minor "creak" when turning the wheel at a stop. Definitely a good place to start, but man doesn't look like fun.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 884
Likes: 7
They aren't terrible if you have good tools.
Get some decent drill bits you don't mind breaking and run the drill around in the rubber and it will walk out. That leaves you with the bare metal sleeve, die grinder or chisel knocks that out and you're ready for new.
I highly recommend polyurethane bushings so they last a good while.
Get some decent drill bits you don't mind breaking and run the drill around in the rubber and it will walk out. That leaves you with the bare metal sleeve, die grinder or chisel knocks that out and you're ready for new.
I highly recommend polyurethane bushings so they last a good while.
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Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
They aren't terrible if you have good tools.
Get some decent drill bits you don't mind breaking and run the drill around in the rubber and it will walk out. That leaves you with the bare metal sleeve, die grinder or chisel knocks that out and you're ready for new.
I highly recommend polyurethane bushings so they last a good while.
Get some decent drill bits you don't mind breaking and run the drill around in the rubber and it will walk out. That leaves you with the bare metal sleeve, die grinder or chisel knocks that out and you're ready for new.
I highly recommend polyurethane bushings so they last a good while.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
Well, the ball joints upper and lower and outer tie rod ends were toast on both sides.
On the driver's side, the lower ball joint nut was only on hand tight (keep in mind this is the opposite side of the tire with the camber issue). Axle joints are toast, wheel bearings looked OK but I'm changing them anyway. Also the pivot bushing closest to the passenger side is toast, I'll be replacing that with poly.
As usual with old trucks, the removal of one part led to a cascade of discovering more worn parts. Trying to decide where to stop with this thing.
At this point, I'll replace all the worn front end parts and hold off on the add-a-leafs I think. After all this work, I'd rather not start taking springs off. Hopefully the upper shackle bushings are OK. God I am so sick of doing front axles.
On the driver's side, the lower ball joint nut was only on hand tight (keep in mind this is the opposite side of the tire with the camber issue). Axle joints are toast, wheel bearings looked OK but I'm changing them anyway. Also the pivot bushing closest to the passenger side is toast, I'll be replacing that with poly.
As usual with old trucks, the removal of one part led to a cascade of discovering more worn parts. Trying to decide where to stop with this thing.
At this point, I'll replace all the worn front end parts and hold off on the add-a-leafs I think. After all this work, I'd rather not start taking springs off. Hopefully the upper shackle bushings are OK. God I am so sick of doing front axles.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
This is with the truck supported in the air and the front axle at full droop. This is the passenger side axle beam and leaf spring as viewed from the rear looking forward. I am grabbing the passenger front tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and rocking up and down. The whole thing moves, springs, shocks, knuckle - there's movement everywhere.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
This is the driver's side which looked completely fine camber wise. Looks like the PO replaced the axle shaft with a junkyard part very recently and just slapped it all back together haphazardly.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central NYS
Keep in mind this truck drove smooth as glass and straight as an arrow down the road, zero pull, zero shake and zero issues, perfectly straight steering wheel. I've never owned a truck with a more frigged up front end and this one drove great. Go figure.
Thinking I should rename this thread if I could, as it no longer has anything to do with add-a-leaves.
Thinking I should rename this thread if I could, as it no longer has anything to do with add-a-leaves.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 224
From: Nevada
Your front end is totally wore out.
If it was mine, the thing would be ripped out, sand blasted painted and all parts replaced
and front end alignment.
Looks to me as loose as the parts shown, an accident waiting to happen.
Comes a point we can`t nickle and dime things to keep them going.
Becomes a safety issue.
My 86 2wd, had worn Pivot Bushings, thought it was all that was bad, then found the
king Pins were loose etc... so replaced everything including new Coil Springs.
She`s like brand new again.
Charlie
If it was mine, the thing would be ripped out, sand blasted painted and all parts replaced
and front end alignment.
Looks to me as loose as the parts shown, an accident waiting to happen.
Comes a point we can`t nickle and dime things to keep them going.
Becomes a safety issue.
My 86 2wd, had worn Pivot Bushings, thought it was all that was bad, then found the
king Pins were loose etc... so replaced everything including new Coil Springs.
She`s like brand new again.
Charlie