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tl;dr I believe my transfer case is bad. Front driveshaft is always engaged with the rear driveshaft no matter what position the transfer case shifter is in. BW 1356 manual shift. I'm wondering what options I have for sourcing a used replacement. There is one from a Bronco close to me and I'm wondering if I can put my slip yoke tail on that one. Thing is my truck is a mash between a 97 and 87 so not sure if that complicates things.. @Khan I hear you know a thing or two about 4x4 stuff..
Little background; as I'm resurrecting my odd chimaera and finally got it on the road and able to put a couple miles on I noticed an odd almost crunchy rolling resistance when moving slow, and occasionally a clanging noise when accelerating with mid throttle or more.
It's a 97 powerstroke, with 87 drivetrain. Front axle, transmission and presumably the transfer case are 87. I have the apparently "rare" 87 sliding 4x4 shifter. See: https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/937321
When pushing the shifter forward in the cap for 2Hi it translates to pushing the shift arm up on the transfer case. I've read this somewhere about differences in the BW1356 "Pre-'90 (manual shift lever points down) vs. post-'90 (up)" but not really sure what that means. I've also read the heavy duty trucks got aluminum front case halves, where the F150's and Broncos were magnesium for both halves. Not sure if I need to care about that or not. What's odd is, as far as I can tell, no shifter position has any effect on the transfer case at all, except perhaps yanking it all the way down is putting it into low. What I know for sure is in all 3 positions 2hi, 4hi, and neutral when trying to turn the front driveshaft it's also trying to turn the rear one. Pulling the arm all the way down does the same, but also feels a little different. I originally suspected binding rear brakes or front u-joints in the axles for the slight crunchy rolling resistance when going slow but after discovering this about the transfer case and finding absolutely nothing wrong in the front end or dragging rear brakes, I think the symptoms I've noticed are coming from the transfer case. So I guess what I'm wondering is can I snag a manual-shifted BW1356 from basically anything and run it? Understanding that if I get the bronco kind with the rear flange I'll have to swap that out.. if that can be done?
From what I can recall the output should change out on the 1356s. I think it was the 1345s that were in 85-86 over the NP208 that you couldn't. I had one in an 86 bronco and it was an odd duck.
I thought the magnesium cases were stronger than aluminum? 1345 was all aluminum and then I am pretty sure the 1356 was mainly magnesium, though I doubt either would make a difference on anything that isn't a rock crawler.
What year cab is in the truck? In ‘87 the shifter is on top of the transmission hump
while the shifter for a ‘97 would be on the side of the tunnel.
It sounds like the transfer case is stuck in 4wd. Have you tried moving the shifter while someone looks at the linkage to see if it is binding up or disconnecting the shifter and manually moving the linkage? I would expect you to easily find another NP to replace yours if it is broken. They were on thousands of trucks.
tl;dr I believe my transfer case is bad. Front driveshaft is always engaged with the rear driveshaft no matter what position the transfer case shifter is in. BW 1356 manual shift. I'm wondering what options I have for sourcing a used replacement. There is one from a Bronco close to me and I'm wondering if I can put my slip yoke tail on that one. Thing is my truck is a mash between a 97 and 87 so not sure if that complicates things.. @Khan I hear you know a thing or two about 4x4 stuff..
Little background; as I'm resurrecting my odd chimaera and finally got it on the road and able to put a couple miles on I noticed an odd almost crunchy rolling resistance when moving slow, and occasionally a clanging noise when accelerating with mid throttle or more.
It's a 97 powerstroke, with 87 drivetrain. Front axle, transmission and presumably the transfer case are 87. I have the apparently "rare" 87 sliding 4x4 shifter. See: https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/937321
When pushing the shifter forward in the cap for 2Hi it translates to pushing the shift arm up on the transfer case. I've read this somewhere about differences in the BW1356 "Pre-'90 (manual shift lever points down) vs. post-'90 (up)" but not really sure what that means. I've also read the heavy duty trucks got aluminum front case halves, where the F150's and Broncos were magnesium for both halves. Not sure if I need to care about that or not. What's odd is, as far as I can tell, no shifter position has any effect on the transfer case at all, except perhaps yanking it all the way down is putting it into low. What I know for sure is in all 3 positions 2hi, 4hi, and neutral when trying to turn the front driveshaft it's also trying to turn the rear one. Pulling the arm all the way down does the same, but also feels a little different. I originally suspected binding rear brakes or front u-joints in the axles for the slight crunchy rolling resistance when going slow but after discovering this about the transfer case and finding absolutely nothing wrong in the front end or dragging rear brakes, I think the symptoms I've noticed are coming from the transfer case. So I guess what I'm wondering is can I snag a manual-shifted BW1356 from basically anything and run it? Understanding that if I get the bronco kind with the rear flange I'll have to swap that out.. if that can be done?
I don't know anything about your issue, but *THANKS*, that breakdown you posted just got me something to reference, to find a part number for the 7335 Roller that I've been looking for for fricking MONTHS, after breaking the one on mine when I did the transmission swap.
Offhand, a BW1356 is a BW1356 though, you should be fine if you're getting a Donor off a similar transmission. (I can vouch for the 1356 Hanging off the back of a C6 mates right up to an AOD for instance.) But it definitely sounds like you've got something broken in your current case, involving the Front Driveshaft disengage mechanism.
I would verify there's not a linkage issue first. Also would verify the front hubs are disengaging. If that's all ok, a bw13-56 isn't too bad to remove, split open, and rebuild. It may be as simple as worn out shift fork pads.
I don't know anything about your issue, but *THANKS*, that breakdown you posted just got me something to reference, to find a part number for the 7335 Roller that I've been looking for for fricking MONTHS, after breaking the one on mine when I did the transmission swap.
Offhand, a BW1356 is a BW1356 though, you should be fine if you're getting a Donor off a similar transmission. (I can vouch for the 1356 Hanging off the back of a C6 mates right up to an AOD for instance.) But it definitely sounds like you've got something broken in your current case, involving the Front Driveshaft disengage mechanism.
You're welcome! Hey if you find that 7335 roller please follow up with the part #. Mine is in sorry shape and I need one too.
Yes you can freely swap rear outputs on a 1356, myself I run a 1-ton aluminum-front case converted to fixed flanged output off a Bronco (driving a Superduty shaft with 1410 u-joints even).
The aluminum front half of the 1-ton 1356 has a PTO port, obviously the internals have to match this to make a functional PTO drive. I didn't look into the feasibility of mixing PTO front half with non-PTO input shaft as I simply didn't think about it tbh.
Lever up vs. down is irrelevant because first most levers can be flipped and second to use the 87 linkage the lever actually points forward AND is also sometimes welded to the shaft so full disassembly is needed there to swap it.
Best course of action is to disconnect the shifter from the t-case and see if you get the 4 positions by manually moving the lever (use channel-locks to grab onto it). Lever all the way up (clockwise rotation) is 2wd, lever all the way down (counter-clockwise rotation) is 4x4 low, and iirc neutral is easy to find but 4x4 high range is a bit of a b*tch to land into by hand. Obviously have rear wheels off the ground and front locking hubs disengaged. But honestly the linkage is hella simple with one bit engaging directly with the other (there ain't no Z-bar setup like later trucks have) so even with a bad-shape roller it'll still shift, I'm thinking maybe you got internal t-case issues which will become apparent if you split it.
What year cab is in the truck? In ‘87 the shifter is on top of the transmission hump
while the shifter for a ‘97 would be on the side of the tunnel.
It's an 87 cab and running gear, 97 engine and dash.
Originally Posted by My4Fordtrucks
It sounds like the transfer case is stuck in 4wd. Have you tried moving the shifter while someone looks at the linkage to see if it is binding up or disconnecting the shifter and manually moving the linkage? I would expect you to easily find another NP to replace yours if it is broken. They were on thousands of trucks.
Originally Posted by GoinBoarding
I would verify there's not a linkage issue first. Also would verify the front hubs are disengaging. If that's all ok, a bw13-56 isn't too bad to remove, split open, and rebuild. It may be as simple as worn out shift fork pads.
Originally Posted by Robfinger
Few things here:
Best course of action is to disconnect the shifter from the t-case and see if you get the 4 positions by manually moving the lever (use channel-locks to grab onto it). Lever all the way up (clockwise rotation) is 2wd, lever all the way down (counter-clockwise rotation) is 4x4 low, and iirc neutral is easy to find but 4x4 high range is a bit of a b*tch to land into by hand. Obviously have rear wheels off the ground and front locking hubs disengaged. But honestly the linkage is hella simple with one bit engaging directly with the other (there ain't no Z-bar setup like later trucks have) so even with a bad-shape roller it'll still shift, I'm thinking maybe you got internal t-case issues which will become apparent if you split it.
I did disconnect the shift linkage from the transfer case, and laying under the truck I was able to grab the short arm on the case and find all 4 positions. In none of the positions did the front driveshaft spin freely. It was always trying to take the rear driveshaft with it so I couldn't move it any farther than the slop in the rear DS would allow. I did this with the rear wheels on the ground but I'm not sure that should make any difference. Does the rear driveshaft need to turn in order for the shifts to have an effect?
My transmission has PTO covers on 2 sides but I don't recall seeing one on the transfer case. It sounds like I can basically run any 1365 and move my tail housing over if needed, that's good to know. Anything to watch out for on a used unit? I'd consider rebuilding mine but it looks like working used ones are not too much money; I'm inclined to maybe do a freshen up on one that functions than try to rescue on that's broken. They seem pretty basic though, with only the snap ring holding the planetary in really being difficult.
It's an 87 cab and running gear, 97 engine and dash.
I did disconnect the shift linkage from the transfer case, and laying under the truck I was able to grab the short arm on the case and find all 4 positions. In none of the positions did the front driveshaft spin freely. It was always trying to take the rear driveshaft with it so I couldn't move it any farther than the slop in the rear DS would allow. I did this with the rear wheels on the ground but I'm not sure that should make any difference. Does the rear driveshaft need to turn in order for the shifts to have an effect?
My transmission has PTO covers on 2 sides but I don't recall seeing one on the transfer case. It sounds like I can basically run any 1365 and move my tail housing over if needed, that's good to know. Anything to watch out for on a used unit? I'd consider rebuilding mine but it looks like working used ones are not too much money; I'm inclined to maybe do a freshen up on one that functions than try to rescue on that's broken. They seem pretty basic though, with only the snap ring holding the planetary in really being difficult.
I just tested on my truck, parked on the ground, 2x4 I can rotate front driveshaft, then shift into 4H, front shaft locks in, then shift back to 2H and front shaft is free again. No need for rear to be up or the driveline to rotate.
I swapped out my electronic shift case to a manual shift a couple years ago. I pulled it from a junkyard truck that looked like it lived a highway life. Split the case, replaced the shift fork pads and oil pump, along with an oil pump retainer modification. Everything else looked great inside (little wear). If you can find a good used case, certainly a good option. You're right, resurrecting your case could be a pain, won't know until you open it.
I just tested on my truck, parked on the ground, 2x4 I can rotate front driveshaft, then shift into 4H, front shaft locks in, then shift back to 2H and front shaft is free again. No need for rear to be up or the driveline to rotate.
I swapped out my electronic shift case to a manual shift a couple years ago. I pulled it from a junkyard truck that looked like it lived a highway life. Split the case, replaced the shift fork pads and oil pump, along with an oil pump retainer modification. Everything else looked great inside (little wear). If you can find a good used case, certainly a good option. You're right, resurrecting your case could be a pain, won't know until you open it.
That's really kind of you to check that out for me, I really appreciate it.
I have a couple leads on replacements. One is about an hour away, bronco version for $300 so I'd have to change the tail housing. Truck version with the PTO case and correct tail housing is $175 but 3 hours away. Hmmm.
Is this truck something you use everyday? Or is this something you can take apart and wait a few days for parts? It sounds to me like either the rooster comb (part inside the case that actuates the forks) has lost contact with one of the forks from the case being worn out around the shift lever, or one of the forks has the ends broken off which is fairly common.
Since you have to drop the case anyway, open it up and see what's going on. The internals on these cases are incredibly simple. If you have torx bits and a snap ring pliers, its an easy afternoon job to rebuild one of these. New forks are very cheap for these, much less than the $175 plus fuel you're looking at.
parked on the ground, 2x4 I can rotate front driveshaft, then shift into 4H, front shaft locks in, then shift back to 2H and front shaft is free again. No need for rear to be up or the driveline to rotate.
Same here except mine is on jack stands. After I installed the transfer case and driveshafts I moved the shift lever into different positions to make sure it still worked. No, the rear driveshaft does not need to turn since it is always engaged and you need to be stopped to go into and out out of 4low.
Splitting your transfer case to see what broke and repair it might make more sense. That is a long way to go for a used case. They are all over the place around here. The majority of the junkyards around me have them.
Not a daily at all, bit of a resurrection project I've been working on over time. Got it for a song and bringing it back to life.
I'll see if I can pull the case and open it up this weekend. 👍
Oh, yeah then no reason not to crack it open and see if it just needs shift forks. Cheap and easy. Or maybe you find the pump retainer failed and there's extensive carnage, which could guide your choice about whether to get the bronco case or a truck case (if the current cases output shaft is junk, makes the choice easy..).
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