Tuner/programmer for 2019 6.7?
Thread Starter
|
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Tuner/programmer for 2019 6.7?
I posted a while back about a Ford software update that idles my truck up after 5 minutes. It also significantly increased DEF use, lowered mpg a bit, and decreased throttle response.
I talked to the SA that did the software update and I’m not so many words he said “yeah, it’s crap, but I can’t undo it”. I complained about the MPG and DEF and he said “Ford thinks that’s better than killing your $X,XXX emissions system.”
So now I’m thinking of getting a tuner/programmer, but I know nothing about them.
I’m looking for (in order):
1. Removable for warranty stealth
2. get rid of the idle up
3. improved MPG/DEF
4. Improved throttle response
5. regen control, or at least transparency of information
6. Low profile install - I don’t want a now gauge cluster or touch screen
I don’t need increased HP or Tq. I don’t tow heavy.
Is there a product out there that ticks these boxes?
I talked to the SA that did the software update and I’m not so many words he said “yeah, it’s crap, but I can’t undo it”. I complained about the MPG and DEF and he said “Ford thinks that’s better than killing your $X,XXX emissions system.”
So now I’m thinking of getting a tuner/programmer, but I know nothing about them.
I’m looking for (in order):
1. Removable for warranty stealth
2. get rid of the idle up
3. improved MPG/DEF
4. Improved throttle response
5. regen control, or at least transparency of information
6. Low profile install - I don’t want a now gauge cluster or touch screen
I don’t need increased HP or Tq. I don’t tow heavy.
Is there a product out there that ticks these boxes?
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,835
Likes: 1,191
From: Southeast MO
I've read the Banks tuner does not leave a footprint but I can't verify that. To me any tuner could be detected if Ford looked hard enough.
More DEF usage equates to less EGR, that's a trade off I would happily accept. My '22 uses more DEF than my '17 but the EGR duty cycle is also less on the 2020 and newer trucks because of it. The idle up is better for your idling truck so the only negative I see is lower MPG and throttle response. How much difference did it make in MPG? Several companies make throttle devices to change the throttle map so that's easily fixable.
Oh and just turn on the DPF% screen and auto regen inhibit with Forscan or have your dealer do it.
More DEF usage equates to less EGR, that's a trade off I would happily accept. My '22 uses more DEF than my '17 but the EGR duty cycle is also less on the 2020 and newer trucks because of it. The idle up is better for your idling truck so the only negative I see is lower MPG and throttle response. How much difference did it make in MPG? Several companies make throttle devices to change the throttle map so that's easily fixable.
Oh and just turn on the DPF% screen and auto regen inhibit with Forscan or have your dealer do it.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 7,968
Likes: 4,043
I posted a while back about a Ford software update that idles my truck up after 5 minutes. It also significantly increased DEF use, lowered mpg a bit, and decreased throttle response.
I talked to the SA that did the software update and I’m not so many words he said “yeah, it’s crap, but I can’t undo it”. I complained about the MPG and DEF and he said “Ford thinks that’s better than killing your $X,XXX emissions system.”
So now I’m thinking of getting a tuner/programmer, but I know nothing about them.
I’m looking for (in order):
1. Removable for warranty stealth
I talked to the SA that did the software update and I’m not so many words he said “yeah, it’s crap, but I can’t undo it”. I complained about the MPG and DEF and he said “Ford thinks that’s better than killing your $X,XXX emissions system.”
So now I’m thinking of getting a tuner/programmer, but I know nothing about them.
I’m looking for (in order):
1. Removable for warranty stealth
Good luck with that. Ford can easily spot if the PCM has been flashed. There is code embedded in a layer above what can be flashed that records each reflash interval. Sort of like the bios on a computer that is read only. It is there for warranty issues in the event of a failure that appears to be "tune" related, Ford can pull the PCM and analyze it. The tech at the dealership can't see this, but Ford can and can request the PCM be pulled and shipped to them for analysis.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 178
Likes: 60
Good luck with that. Ford can easily spot if the PCM has been flashed. There is code embedded in a layer above what can be flashed that records each reflash interval. Sort of like the bios on a computer that is read only. It is there for warranty issues in the event of a failure that appears to be "tune" related, Ford can pull the PCM and analyze it. The tech at the dealership can't see this, but Ford can and can request the PCM be pulled and shipped to them for analysis.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 313
the Banks Derringer is an inline tuner. it does not flash the pcm. it needs to be plugged in for it to work. its supposed to read the trucks data and adjust the data to allow more power. this is what Banks says.Does the Derringer void my warranty?
The Derringer is an inline tuner. It does not alter the truck’s ECM in any way, unlike a flash tuner that permanently alters the truck’s ECM. Treat the Derringer as you would with altering the truck’s suspension. Most dealerships understand accessories like upgraded suspension systems is harmless, however, some dealers are not as forgiving. Always check with your service advisor prior to dropping off your truck. Are they ok with aftermarket accessories? When in doubt, simply remove the Derringer and engine harness. It takes less than 10 minutes. After removal its presence is undetectable.
Is it true that my truck’s ECM records max torque values that can be retrieved by a dealer and used to prove that I had a tuner installed?
The ECM doesn’t know the Derringer is adding fuel so its fuel rate and reported torque value remain stock. With a reflash tuner, the ECM knows about the extra fuel which raises the max torque and raises red flags at the dealership.
The Derringer is undetectable after removal and here’s why. Your truck’s ECM calculates torque values primarily based on fuel flow. It sends these torque values to the transmission’s control module (TCM) where this data is used to calculate shifts, etc. However, the ECM, which generates these torque values based mostly on fuel flow, isn’t aware of the extra fuel that your Derringer is commanding, therefor the torque values sent to the TCM are always within factory spec. Again, the TCM never sees higher-than-normal torque values because the ECM doesn’t report higher-than-normal torque. Does the engine make more torque with a Derringer? Yes. Is the transmission aware of this added torque? No. How do we know for sure? Banks Engineers monitored the PIDs that record max horsepower and torque. These values remained unchanged after the installation of the Derringer. But if the TCM isn’t aware of this added torque, how do Banks know the Derringer won’t hurt the transmission? Your Derringer is extensively calibrated to optimize precisely where the extra torque can be added. It also constantly monitors transmission slip and strictly adheres to factory specs. If the Derringer detects excessive slip, it reduces its added power. So, why do so many service techs say that they can see max torque values after a tuner has been removed? Because they’ve seen plenty of reflash tunes. Reflash tuners have been incredibly popular over the past decade. These tunes alter the ECM’s fuel map resulting in higher torque calculations that are sent to and recorded in the TCM.
Should I remove the Derringer and iDash before a dealer visit?
This depends on your relationship with your dealership and/or service writer. It’s good to know if they’re aftermarket accessory friendly. When in doubt, remove the Derringer module and engine harness. Coil up starter cable and zip-tie it out of sight. The iDash is a diagnostic device just like any mechanic’s diagnostic scan tool or code reader. It can remain in the vehicle.
When disconnecting and removing the Derringer, it’s best to disconnect both batteries. If this is not possible, you may get a check engine light upon restarting the truck. Simply use your iDash to clear the codes.
The Derringer is an inline tuner. It does not alter the truck’s ECM in any way, unlike a flash tuner that permanently alters the truck’s ECM. Treat the Derringer as you would with altering the truck’s suspension. Most dealerships understand accessories like upgraded suspension systems is harmless, however, some dealers are not as forgiving. Always check with your service advisor prior to dropping off your truck. Are they ok with aftermarket accessories? When in doubt, simply remove the Derringer and engine harness. It takes less than 10 minutes. After removal its presence is undetectable.
Is it true that my truck’s ECM records max torque values that can be retrieved by a dealer and used to prove that I had a tuner installed?
The ECM doesn’t know the Derringer is adding fuel so its fuel rate and reported torque value remain stock. With a reflash tuner, the ECM knows about the extra fuel which raises the max torque and raises red flags at the dealership.
The Derringer is undetectable after removal and here’s why. Your truck’s ECM calculates torque values primarily based on fuel flow. It sends these torque values to the transmission’s control module (TCM) where this data is used to calculate shifts, etc. However, the ECM, which generates these torque values based mostly on fuel flow, isn’t aware of the extra fuel that your Derringer is commanding, therefor the torque values sent to the TCM are always within factory spec. Again, the TCM never sees higher-than-normal torque values because the ECM doesn’t report higher-than-normal torque. Does the engine make more torque with a Derringer? Yes. Is the transmission aware of this added torque? No. How do we know for sure? Banks Engineers monitored the PIDs that record max horsepower and torque. These values remained unchanged after the installation of the Derringer. But if the TCM isn’t aware of this added torque, how do Banks know the Derringer won’t hurt the transmission? Your Derringer is extensively calibrated to optimize precisely where the extra torque can be added. It also constantly monitors transmission slip and strictly adheres to factory specs. If the Derringer detects excessive slip, it reduces its added power. So, why do so many service techs say that they can see max torque values after a tuner has been removed? Because they’ve seen plenty of reflash tunes. Reflash tuners have been incredibly popular over the past decade. These tunes alter the ECM’s fuel map resulting in higher torque calculations that are sent to and recorded in the TCM.
Should I remove the Derringer and iDash before a dealer visit?
This depends on your relationship with your dealership and/or service writer. It’s good to know if they’re aftermarket accessory friendly. When in doubt, remove the Derringer module and engine harness. Coil up starter cable and zip-tie it out of sight. The iDash is a diagnostic device just like any mechanic’s diagnostic scan tool or code reader. It can remain in the vehicle.
When disconnecting and removing the Derringer, it’s best to disconnect both batteries. If this is not possible, you may get a check engine light upon restarting the truck. Simply use your iDash to clear the codes.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
72 F250
1999 - 2016 Super Duty
9
Jul 31, 2011 02:25 PM
