Saginaw Pump Swap Issues
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 136
Likes: 17
Saginaw Pump Swap Issues
Decided to upgrade my whiny C2 pump to the much better Saginaw variant.
pulled a Saginaw Power Steering pump, bracket and pressure line off an E150 1990 van at the scrap yard for 20 bucks.
when I spun the pulley at the yard it pressurized and sprayed fluid out. Good to go.
Brought it home, spun the pump up to push out all the old fluid, it was generating plenty of volume and pressure to clear the lines etc. Pulled the cap and dumped all the old fluid out.
Put in some fresh ATF in the reservoir and spun the pulley to push it through. Nothing. No pressure at all. Pulled the pressure valve, it's not stuck in the bore, spring pushes it in and out smoothly.
I know its a sliding centrifugal vane style pump to generate push.
Is it just going to have to be on the block spinning at idle with pressure and return lines hooked up to generate pressure since I emptied it?
I dont want to go through the time installing it all in just to find out shes toast.
The c2 pump generates pressure as soon as you turn the pulley by hand empty or not, you can hear it.
Am I just being paranoid here? 😅
Should I just slap it in and hope it works?
pulled a Saginaw Power Steering pump, bracket and pressure line off an E150 1990 van at the scrap yard for 20 bucks.
when I spun the pulley at the yard it pressurized and sprayed fluid out. Good to go.
Brought it home, spun the pump up to push out all the old fluid, it was generating plenty of volume and pressure to clear the lines etc. Pulled the cap and dumped all the old fluid out.
Put in some fresh ATF in the reservoir and spun the pulley to push it through. Nothing. No pressure at all. Pulled the pressure valve, it's not stuck in the bore, spring pushes it in and out smoothly.
I know its a sliding centrifugal vane style pump to generate push.
Is it just going to have to be on the block spinning at idle with pressure and return lines hooked up to generate pressure since I emptied it?
I dont want to go through the time installing it all in just to find out shes toast.
The c2 pump generates pressure as soon as you turn the pulley by hand empty or not, you can hear it.
Am I just being paranoid here? 😅
Should I just slap it in and hope it works?
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 554
Likes: 186
Got a spare pulley off anything? Don't need to be a serpentine belt type either. If you do, put a bolt thru it, center it best you can, put the works into your cordless drill (or corded on low speed mode). Then put pump in a vice with its own pulley installed, cap the return port and reinstallpressure valve, fill reservoir with fluid. Now use your drill and any old belt that you have laying around to spin the pump and prime it and it will again behave like your old C2 pump does.
I like doing this once again after the pump is in the vehicle and all lines are hooked up, especially if a new steering box and/or hydroboost unit went in at the same time. Very gentle method of priming the whole system and establishing mostly proper fluid levels before you even start the engine.
I like doing this once again after the pump is in the vehicle and all lines are hooked up, especially if a new steering box and/or hydroboost unit went in at the same time. Very gentle method of priming the whole system and establishing mostly proper fluid levels before you even start the engine.
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 136
Likes: 17
Got a spare pulley off anything? Don't need to be a serpentine belt type either. If you do, put a bolt thru it, center it best you can, put the works into your cordless drill (or corded on low speed mode). Then put pump in a vice with its own pulley installed, cap the return port and reinstallpressure valve, fill reservoir with fluid. Now use your drill and any old belt that you have laying around to spin the pump and prime it and it will again behave like your old C2 pump does.
I like doing this once again after the pump is in the vehicle and all lines are hooked up, especially if a new steering box and/or hydroboost unit went in at the same time. Very gentle method of priming the whole system and establishing mostly proper fluid levels before you even start the engine.
I like doing this once again after the pump is in the vehicle and all lines are hooked up, especially if a new steering box and/or hydroboost unit went in at the same time. Very gentle method of priming the whole system and establishing mostly proper fluid levels before you even start the engine.
The method for the c2 swap was always install it. Fill it up. Jack up the front end, start the truck, wheels back and forth and then drop it and let the last air bubbles bleed out and final top up.
I'll cap the return line and lock her in the vice and spool it up with a hex drill in the shaft or my pulley installer bolt in the shaft threads and a socket. It should start pushing fluid correct?
Once I mount it in the bracket and install it, basically like any other pump, fill it with fluid, jack the truck off the ground, start it up and start turning the wheels back and forth then top it up?
I was expecting it to pressurize at least a LITTLE as it is (off the truck on it's own with fresh fluid in it) and spinning the drive shaft just like the C2 or generally any other pump I've worked on.
I've never worked or handled an old school sliding vane one so I'm curious.
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 136
Likes: 17
So I went back to the scrap yard and pulled another one for 20 bucks.
Got it home. Drained it. Cleaned it up. Fresh fluid, capped the return line and then chucked the pulley in my drill and cranked it.
Took about 45 secs to a min but it finally primed and sprayed the rafters!
Got it installed and hooked up and holy ***** what a difference!
I'll never go back to the C2. I was skeptical about the claims of how much better this pump is but its unreal. Best 20 bucks I'll ever put into this thing.
Not just the incredible steering improvement but also the noise. It's dead quiet even at full park.
The venerable C2 will be wrapped in a bag on the shelf as a back up lol
Thanks for the help brother. Much appreciated.
Got it home. Drained it. Cleaned it up. Fresh fluid, capped the return line and then chucked the pulley in my drill and cranked it.
Took about 45 secs to a min but it finally primed and sprayed the rafters!
Got it installed and hooked up and holy ***** what a difference!
I'll never go back to the C2. I was skeptical about the claims of how much better this pump is but its unreal. Best 20 bucks I'll ever put into this thing.
Not just the incredible steering improvement but also the noise. It's dead quiet even at full park.
The venerable C2 will be wrapped in a bag on the shelf as a back up lol
Thanks for the help brother. Much appreciated.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,484
Likes: 2,773
From: Northern Ontario
I like doing this once again after the pump is in the vehicle and all lines are hooked up, especially if a new steering box and/or hydroboost unit went in at the same time. Very gentle method of priming the whole system and establishing mostly proper fluid levels before you even start the engine.
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 554
Likes: 186
The C2 and the Saginaw pumps are nearly identical internally actually, different dimensions obviously but same design overall. For some reason the C2 does prime super easy usually, at least that's been my experience with them. The Saginaws, if you use something like slick honey when assembling them, it will stick the vanes to the rotor and the pump won't prime and push juice till the fluid dissolves some of the sticky stuff. Maybe when you drained the 1st Saginaw pump the vanes got stuck, but yeah they do take a bit of spinning to get them primed and moving fluid properly.
Anyway nice that you got it working. And yeah you're usually told to run engine and top reservoir off as needed, but that's cause manually purging the system my way takes longer, and also often you can't hook up a standalone belt to the pump cause there's something else on top of it obstructing your belt routing. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, either way as long as wheels are off the ground while you're turning steering lock to lock the job gets done.
Anyway nice that you got it working. And yeah you're usually told to run engine and top reservoir off as needed, but that's cause manually purging the system my way takes longer, and also often you can't hook up a standalone belt to the pump cause there's something else on top of it obstructing your belt routing. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, either way as long as wheels are off the ground while you're turning steering lock to lock the job gets done.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,221
Likes: 805
Decided to upgrade my whiny C2 pump to the much better Saginaw variant.
pulled a Saginaw Power Steering pump, bracket and pressure line off an E150 1990 van at the scrap yard for 20 bucks.
when I spun the pulley at the yard it pressurized and sprayed fluid out. Good to go.
Brought it home, spun the pump up to push out all the old fluid, it was generating plenty of volume and pressure to clear the lines etc. Pulled the cap and dumped all the old fluid out.
Put in some fresh ATF in the reservoir and spun the pulley to push it through. Nothing. No pressure at all. Pulled the pressure valve, it's not stuck in the bore, spring pushes it in and out smoothly.
I know its a sliding centrifugal vane style pump to generate push.
Is it just going to have to be on the block spinning at idle with pressure and return lines hooked up to generate pressure since I emptied it?
I dont want to go through the time installing it all in just to find out shes toast.
The c2 pump generates pressure as soon as you turn the pulley by hand empty or not, you can hear it.
Am I just being paranoid here? 😅
Should I just slap it in and hope it works?
pulled a Saginaw Power Steering pump, bracket and pressure line off an E150 1990 van at the scrap yard for 20 bucks.
when I spun the pulley at the yard it pressurized and sprayed fluid out. Good to go.
Brought it home, spun the pump up to push out all the old fluid, it was generating plenty of volume and pressure to clear the lines etc. Pulled the cap and dumped all the old fluid out.
Put in some fresh ATF in the reservoir and spun the pulley to push it through. Nothing. No pressure at all. Pulled the pressure valve, it's not stuck in the bore, spring pushes it in and out smoothly.
I know its a sliding centrifugal vane style pump to generate push.
Is it just going to have to be on the block spinning at idle with pressure and return lines hooked up to generate pressure since I emptied it?
I dont want to go through the time installing it all in just to find out shes toast.
The c2 pump generates pressure as soon as you turn the pulley by hand empty or not, you can hear it.
Am I just being paranoid here? 😅
Should I just slap it in and hope it works?
dont worry too much about the left most piece, because ford likely used a different kind but may not. anyway, was your valve in this order, with the o ring on the fitting, and the control valve having a hex screw on the tip of it. the spring then last? Also, whats the pulley diameter? you usually can spit fluid with a saginaw P pump by spinning by hand. you likely have a fine pump but I would at least change a reservoir o ring while its off. Its not a lot to put it on, just put it on.
If it doesnt work when you put it on, go find any P pump from a Gm since about 1975(press on pulley) to 2000s ish. 1990s gm truck had p pumps for sure.
I own like 8 if I put them all together
also these things have a simple dipstick but you should eithr clean it out or buy a new one. they have a vent. if you capped the reservoir with a dirty cap, it may not be moving fluid because of that also, you put what fluid in? if its Type F, thats fine. But a synthetic ATF is both bad and also thin, it would be more pissing in the wind trying to get it to move water vs a viscous fluid
Trending Topics
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 554
Likes: 186
Aight then, given that all the GM folks in my "social circle" run just your regular Dex/Merc ATF in their box-bodystyle Saginaw-pumped trucks, why can't you run it in Ford-issue Sag pump? The type F is for C2 pumps for sure yes, but I've never had or heard of any issues with the Saginaws running pretty much anything that is oily and reasonably thin. Hell some ppl use straight up tractor hydraulic fluid with zero issues it seems.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,338
Likes: 1,314
From: Central Mississippi
We went through this not too long ago. The E-series vans using sags list mercon for their fluid. Mercon V is specifically made to have the same viscosity & equal to/better than lubricity.
Next time I have to drain my PS system, Merc V is going back (Valvoline PS fluid, clear in there now) without any worries.
Last conversion I helped somebody do, he went Merc V & a year later no issues.
Next time I have to drain my PS system, Merc V is going back (Valvoline PS fluid, clear in there now) without any worries.
Last conversion I helped somebody do, he went Merc V & a year later no issues.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 159
Likes: 35
We went through this not too long ago. The E-series vans using sags list mercon for their fluid. Mercon V is specifically made to have the same viscosity & equal to/better than lubricity.
Next time I have to drain my PS system, Merc V is going back (Valvoline PS fluid, clear in there now) without any worries.
Last conversion I helped somebody do, he went Merc V & a year later no issues.
Next time I have to drain my PS system, Merc V is going back (Valvoline PS fluid, clear in there now) without any worries.
Last conversion I helped somebody do, he went Merc V & a year later no issues.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 620
I'm reasonably certain that a ham can saginaw pump will work on any fluid you can dump in there, for at least a little while.
Water, whiskey (although that would be a crime), old milk, whatever.
That being said, I *highly* doubt you're going to be causing any problems with any standard viscosity ATF. The GM Power Steering fluid is probably your *best* option, but I personally wouldn't hesitate to run Dex/Merc, Mercon V, or even Dexron VI in it, if that was what I had at hand.
Water, whiskey (although that would be a crime), old milk, whatever.
That being said, I *highly* doubt you're going to be causing any problems with any standard viscosity ATF. The GM Power Steering fluid is probably your *best* option, but I personally wouldn't hesitate to run Dex/Merc, Mercon V, or even Dexron VI in it, if that was what I had at hand.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,539
Likes: 2,030
From: North Texas
Sag on my 88 has had cheap PS fluid for better part of 15 years. No problems with it, no clue what is in the pump on my Z71 new, but I drained and filled it with PS many moons ago. It too is fine.
In the end, a PS pump is just a hydraulic pump, as is an auto trans.
Fill it with whatever is on hand and cheapest.
In the end, a PS pump is just a hydraulic pump, as is an auto trans.
Fill it with whatever is on hand and cheapest.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
sibernut
Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels
6
Aug 14, 2012 02:31 PM
grandads76
1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
26
Jun 9, 2007 10:52 PM
colwilly
Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels
2
Jan 28, 2005 08:02 PM