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Finally Started rebuilt 351W...need some help

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Old Nov 5, 2021 | 01:23 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by andy011
Yours does sound exactly like mine. What did you end up doing to fix yours?
I ended up getting longer pushrods.

How much preload did you include?
My lifters recommended .020-.080, and I think I went tight with .082.

The cam I put in, not factory, was supposed to be stock replacement, it was not. Different base circle size in cam.
Bought a pushrod length checker, and decided I needed longer pushrods.
Stock pushrods: 7.567
Pushrods ordered: 7.625

Here is a thread, that explains the whole issue I had, from lifters being different heights, to cam circle sizes:

Loose rockers on F4TE E7 new cam, lifters, springs - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com)

Here is what the engine sounds like with correct length pushrods:
 
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Old Nov 5, 2021 | 09:00 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by wwhite

How much preload did you include?
My preload was on the light end. Around .030". This might be my problem. Pushrods were 7.500" Trick Flow Chrome Moly's. This is what everything measured out to be.
 
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Old Nov 5, 2021 | 10:17 AM
  #18  
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I've read posts that some say there rockers are louder, like sewing machines. Its very hard to say what is 'too loud', without rippn it apart and measuring again.

I think you said the rockers are used?
 
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Old Nov 5, 2021 | 10:21 AM
  #19  
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Yes, rockers are used.
 
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Old Nov 7, 2021 | 05:21 PM
  #20  
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So, I removed both valve covers and checked all the rockers for proper preload. The crane cams manual calls for 0.020" to 0.060" preload, or 1/4 to 1 turn to torque the rocker bolt starting at the beginning of compressing the lifter. All were at 1/2 to 3/4 turn to torque except for one rocker each in #1 and #4 cylinders. Both of those were right at 1/4 turn and had a shim under the rocker. I removed the shims, and that put both of these at around 3/4 turn. Everything else looked good...no indication of rockers hitting the valve cover. All the lifters were tight except for one in #5 cylinder, which was very soft for about 1/8" travel and then was solid. I did not like that, but I do not think it was an issue.

After reassembly, the noise remains and still appears to be around #1 cylinder. Any suggestions?

If it is an exhaust leak, would it sound so metallic? One thought I have is that the crossover pipe was not a real good fit with the headers. I got them to bolt up, but there is definitely some strain there. Since the noise starts as the engine heats up, could the heat expansion of the crossover pipe be adding extra stress to the headers resulting in a leak? And if so, what is the best way to find an exhaust leak?

Right now, I am at a loss of what to do next. Maybe just run it as is?
 
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Old Nov 7, 2021 | 05:28 PM
  #21  
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I think it’s plausible you have an exhaust leak with that situation you have with the headers.

I check for exhaust leaks by sticking a shop vac up the tailpipe. Shove the hose up there and seal the pipe off with packing tape. Turn the vacuum on (blowing, not sucking) and listen and feel for leaks. That way you can crawl under the truck, feel the headers without being burned. If you have any you’ll find them easily with this method. It’s worked really for me.
 
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Old Nov 8, 2021 | 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by EllieMae94
I think it’s plausible you have an exhaust leak with that situation you have with the headers.

I check for exhaust leaks by sticking a shop vac up the tailpipe. Shove the hose up there and seal the pipe off with packing tape. Turn the vacuum on (blowing, not sucking) and listen and feel for leaks.
The last time I did that I put a lit/smoldering cheap cigar in a tin can inside the shop vacuum. It worked great spotting leaks in the exhaust and manifolds. Poor man's smoke machine.
 
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Old Nov 8, 2021 | 09:21 AM
  #23  
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A friend's Chevy had a bad tick that turned out to be an exhaust leak (manifold gasket in backwards). Sounded very metallic, like something inside wanted out. Louder under load.

I like the idea of the cigar in the shop vac. A while back I tried to make a smoke machine that took cigarettes, but I could only get about twenty seconds of smoke out of it per lung dart.
 
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Old Nov 8, 2021 | 10:56 AM
  #24  
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Here's a video of how to build a cheap smoke tester. I built one, but used a plastic coffee can instead of PVC pipe.
The only thing that was little tricky to find was the vape wire.
 
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Old Nov 8, 2021 | 11:14 AM
  #25  
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If it is an exhaust leak, would the noise not change with the engine cold vs hot?

Re-torque exhaust manifold bolts.
What exhaust is currently on it?
Did you check the heads exhaust mating surface to be flat and true?

I know exhaust is a pain, pull the manifold off, look at gasket, see if its leaking, look for cracks in manifold.
Put it back on, use some high temp silicon (gold/copper?) on the gasket on the head side only. Let it cure for 24hrs.
That should seal up any exhaust leaks, it it is an exhaust leak.

I just listened to the videos again, pretty sure it is not an exhaust leak.

Why did the previous owner of the lifters sell them?
Ask them if they found the lifters noisy.
 
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Old Nov 8, 2021 | 06:09 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by wwhite
If it is an exhaust leak, would the noise not change with the engine cold vs hot?
It does change. The noise is not present on a cold startup and builds in when heating up.

What exhaust is currently on it?
JBA 1628SJS shorty headers and a Magnaflow factory spec crossover pipe and replacement CAT. As stated in a previous post, the mate up between the headers and pipe was not great, and has some strain already.

Did you check the heads exhaust mating surface to be flat and true?
Yes

Why did the previous owner of the lifters sell them?
Ask them if they found the lifters noisy.
The rockers came with the heads when I bought them. I had my machine shop check the heads over and replace guides. The rockers I reused. The lifters and pushrods were new.

I'll try and look for an exhaust leak this coming weekend.
 
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Old Nov 9, 2021 | 01:09 PM
  #27  
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Alternatively to the smoke method, could use soapy water in a spray bottle; worked for me.
 
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Old Nov 9, 2021 | 02:12 PM
  #28  
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Exhaust leak at manifold should see black soot, on one or more exhaust ports.
 
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Old Nov 20, 2021 | 05:48 PM
  #29  
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Finally got the exhaust testing done. I built one of the smoke machines like the one as shown in Mikulh's post. (Thanks for the idea.)

I tested both cold and hot engine, with no leaks noted at the headers or Y-pipe. So, no exhaust leak.

That leaves rockers or lifters. I was thinking the next step would be to pull the valve covers again and swap out the roller rockers with the factory stamped rockers. The only issue I see with that is the push rod length might not match. If they do, I can run it that way and potentially either identify the rockers as bad, or the need to look harder at lifters. While I have the covers off, I'll check the lifters to see if I can identify any issues. If I do, I will just go after lifters then. I really do not want to pull the lower intake...so hopefully no issue are noted.

I also noted a rear main oil seal leak while I was under looking for exhaust leaks. I think I have less than 30 minutes run time on the rebuilt engine...I should have bought a new truck.
 
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Old Nov 22, 2021 | 11:13 AM
  #30  
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Ok, I have both valve covers off at this moment. All the lifter are solid now...so I do not think the issue is in the lifters. Some of the rockers have some side to side play with the associated valve closed. Is this normal or not for this style rocker?
 
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