Which pump and steering box?
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 235
Likes: 56
From: St. Petersburg, FL
Which pump and steering box?
Time to do some more upgrades on the EX. Steering gear box and ps pump wore out with 262k on them
For the gear box go Red Head or Motor craft? Any other options?
Also didn’t know if Turn One made a pump for that would work with the EX? Used those in past F Body projects.
Thanks!
For the gear box go Red Head or Motor craft? Any other options?
Also didn’t know if Turn One made a pump for that would work with the EX? Used those in past F Body projects.
Thanks!
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
Time to do some more upgrades on the EX. Steering gear box and ps pump wore out with 262k on them
For the gear box go Red Head or Motor craft? Any other options?
Also didn’t know if Turn One made a pump for that would work with the EX? Used those in past F Body projects.
Thanks!
For the gear box go Red Head or Motor craft? Any other options?
Also didn’t know if Turn One made a pump for that would work with the EX? Used those in past F Body projects.
Thanks!
both the motorcraft and redhead steering gears are remanufactured back to stock specifications, there is no "upgraded" performance to them over what the Excursion had from the factory.
I am familiar with modified pumps for higher flow or higer PSI but I have never heard of Turn One, what is their pump doing that the stock one doesnt ?
also, If you are going to modify or upgrade your gear/pump you need to also factor in the hydroboost as it is plumbed into the system.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 235
Likes: 56
From: St. Petersburg, FL
More robust. Turning 37” now and eventually 40’s once I do a radius upgrade.
Turn One pumps reduce drag and fluid temps, high temp bearings and upped pressure.
Plan is to ship this thing out to Colorado next summer and do a 2 week adventure with some of my cruiser buddies that live out there.
Turn One pumps reduce drag and fluid temps, high temp bearings and upped pressure.
Plan is to ship this thing out to Colorado next summer and do a 2 week adventure with some of my cruiser buddies that live out there.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
found Turn One website.
looks like they speacilize in faster steering ratios for older cars, this is sometine you would want in a lightweigh road race or rally car, not a heavy, large tire off road vehicle.
what you are looking for is more power not quicker response, those 2 things are opposite.
with 40's you have a few things to be concerned with.
1. power
2. strength
to addresse both of those the ideal solution would be to swap in the 2005+ steering gear as it has a significantly larger sector shaft, this addressees not only the breakage problem but they also have much bigger bearings and that help keep them from wearing out so quick.
for power, adding a Hydraulic ram or "hydro assist" is the ideal solution, not only does it give you the power to turn 40's with 1 finger but more importantly it distribute the forces off the steering gear/frame and moves it to the axle and drag link.
companies like Red Head head offer Porting on their boxes so you can plumb in a ram.
PSC steering also offers a nice hydro assist steer gear but more importantly they are the Go to ram supplier in the aftermarket Hydro steer segment of the offroad industry.
looks like they speacilize in faster steering ratios for older cars, this is sometine you would want in a lightweigh road race or rally car, not a heavy, large tire off road vehicle.
what you are looking for is more power not quicker response, those 2 things are opposite.
with 40's you have a few things to be concerned with.
1. power
2. strength
to addresse both of those the ideal solution would be to swap in the 2005+ steering gear as it has a significantly larger sector shaft, this addressees not only the breakage problem but they also have much bigger bearings and that help keep them from wearing out so quick.
for power, adding a Hydraulic ram or "hydro assist" is the ideal solution, not only does it give you the power to turn 40's with 1 finger but more importantly it distribute the forces off the steering gear/frame and moves it to the axle and drag link.
companies like Red Head head offer Porting on their boxes so you can plumb in a ram.
PSC steering also offers a nice hydro assist steer gear but more importantly they are the Go to ram supplier in the aftermarket Hydro steer segment of the offroad industry.
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 296
Likes: 2
From: Denver, CO
Following this thread as its on the list, the 05+ swap is appealing based on what Camo has said. From what I recall from past posts the mounting holes need to be enlarged in the frame, one of the lines needs to be changed, and the factory Excursion pitman arm will not work. One of the unanswered questions was if the factory steering pump is adequate when swapping to hydro assist.
Has Camo made progress on this swap on his own Ex?? I believe it was on his to do list also...
I have used PSC kits in the past and overall I have been pleased, mostly on Jeeps however.
Has Camo made progress on this swap on his own Ex?? I believe it was on his to do list also...
I have used PSC kits in the past and overall I have been pleased, mostly on Jeeps however.
Veteran/Sheepdog
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 110
From: Western AR
I don't off-road, but my old, original pump is handling the swap/conversion to 05+ steering gear just fine for 120k miles now. I even bought a new one for when it goes out, but it's still on the shelf waiting it's turn. The newer gear makes life easier on the old pump and hydroboost.
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More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 640
Likes: 282
From: Texas
I would have recommended the Lee power steering pump as an upgrade, I have had it for a while now (about 4 years) and it is a very good improvement, but the price has gone up over $200 since then.
I agree with 40's ram assist is the better way to go. Planning on it myself... eventually. I'm not sure how far you are wanting to go with your upgrades but Howe Performance has a steering gear for our trucks.
I have no first-hand experience with it yet but it is on my to-do list. Just mentioning it as an option.
I agree with 40's ram assist is the better way to go. Planning on it myself... eventually. I'm not sure how far you are wanting to go with your upgrades but Howe Performance has a steering gear for our trucks.
I have no first-hand experience with it yet but it is on my to-do list. Just mentioning it as an option.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
Following this thread as its on the list, the 05+ swap is appealing based on what Camo has said. From what I recall from past posts the mounting holes need to be enlarged in the frame, one of the lines needs to be changed, and the factory Excursion pitman arm will not work. One of the unanswered questions was if the factory steering pump is adequate when swapping to hydro assist.
Has Camo made progress on this swap on his own Ex?? I believe it was on his to do list also...
I have used PSC kits in the past and overall I have been pleased, mostly on Jeeps however.
Has Camo made progress on this swap on his own Ex?? I believe it was on his to do list also...
I have used PSC kits in the past and overall I have been pleased, mostly on Jeeps however.
i think the factory pump will be fine for anything you are going to do in the Excursion, but it you are actually going to try hardcore rockcrawling trails and need the massive power steering requirements you will want a higher pressure pump, if you are going to be high speed preruning than you will want higher flow pump.
issues to be resolved swapping a 05 steer gear
1. frame bolt hole
2. Tie rod end at the pitman arm
3. change fitting and hose at hydroboost to eliminate teflon washer. Switch to AN
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 890
Likes: 156
From: Gainesville
I had a Red Head a few years back and within 30,000 miles, I had to replace it with on a Ford Reman.
Reman lasted bout 50,000 miles.
I am now installing a Blue Top. Should be done tomorrow.
I’ll let you know how it feels.
Reman lasted bout 50,000 miles.
I am now installing a Blue Top. Should be done tomorrow.
I’ll let you know how it feels.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 235
Likes: 56
From: St. Petersburg, FL
I looked into the Blue Top boxes also.
So what parts do I need to piece this togther. Is there a new pitman arm i need to order?
The frame bolt hole and AN fitting shouldn't be a problem.
Plan is to start out with the ported steering box and new pump.
Looks like mount the ram to D60 DIY4X diff cover and then to the drag link. Will the PSC 1.5X8 Single be the right size?
So what parts do I need to piece this togther. Is there a new pitman arm i need to order?
The frame bolt hole and AN fitting shouldn't be a problem.
Plan is to start out with the ported steering box and new pump.
Looks like mount the ram to D60 DIY4X diff cover and then to the drag link. Will the PSC 1.5X8 Single be the right size?
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
yes that is the ram that is most often used.
the critical part of adding hydro is timing the stops at 3 locations, the ram, the axle and the steer gear.
the ram, to do this you cycle the steering, measure for and build a spacer that gets installed internally to limit the cyliners throw.
the axle, typically the tire is going to rub before you hit the hard axle stops at the yoke, so drill and tap the stops to take a 1/4" bolt that becomes the adjustable stop.
the gear, for this you need to mark where you want your stops and send it into your steering guy who will adjust the internal stops.
without all 3 of these stops timmed correctly you can easily put enough power into your steering system to rip itself part, basically when you turn the wheel something IS going to move, even if that someting is ripping your box off the frame because the tire is pinned againts the leaf spring.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
with a ram assist setup you should be able to do do with 40’s