Axle question....
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 144
Axle question....
So after that guy yesterday stopped while I was pulling, saying he thought something was wrong with my trailer, I decided to look a little more into the axle stuff.
The rear axle on my 2019 Keystone Bullet is bowed down slightly, and the right rear wheel seems to be wearing more on the inside edge.
This set up has the axles 4 feet apart, front axle straight.
I am getting all sorts of info trying to find out if this is ok or not, saw a link to the manufacturer that said it was suppose to be as such....????
kinda hard to read the fine print on my phone tho.
I guess I have about 5k on the tires and trailer since new, everything else looks ok.
Appreciate any advice, help, don’t want it to bug me while on vacation, but I don’t want any issues driving home either...
thanks!
The rear axle on my 2019 Keystone Bullet is bowed down slightly, and the right rear wheel seems to be wearing more on the inside edge.
This set up has the axles 4 feet apart, front axle straight.
I am getting all sorts of info trying to find out if this is ok or not, saw a link to the manufacturer that said it was suppose to be as such....????
kinda hard to read the fine print on my phone tho.
I guess I have about 5k on the tires and trailer since new, everything else looks ok.
Appreciate any advice, help, don’t want it to bug me while on vacation, but I don’t want any issues driving home either...
thanks!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 502
Lots of trailer axles have a 'bow' to them. Completely unloaded, they should bow up in the center (frown face). The idea is, once loaded, the axle will flatten out and the camber on the tires will be normal. Sounds like the rear axle is bowing down in the center, causing the rear tire to wear excessively on the inside edge. Is the trailer nice and flat when being towed or is it nose high? If nose-high, it's overloading the rear axle and causing the tire wear issue. Do you have a lot of weight in the trailer behind the rear axle? There could also just be an issue with the axle itself if all other things can be ruled out.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 144
No, no weight back there like that......
Lots of trailer axles have a 'bow' to them. Completely unloaded, they should bow up in the center (frown face). The idea is, once loaded, the axle will flatten out and the camber on the tires will be normal. Sounds like the rear axle is bowing down in the center, causing the rear tire to wear excessively on the inside edge. Is the trailer nice and flat when being towed or is it nose high? If nose-high, it's overloading the rear axle and causing the tire wear issue. Do you have a lot of weight in the trailer behind the rear axle? There could also just be an issue with the axle itself if all other things can be ruled out.
No, I would think weight wise we are very light even...???
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Media PA
Have you scaled the rig? If so, compare the loaded trailer axle weight to what the listed axle weight rating is.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 144
I know the axle looked like this before I started out and I got here with no issues other that someone telling me he thought it might have a problem, otherwise I would oblivious and happy like my normal default setting 😎
I guess I can get it home later in the week and take it in if need be?
would rather not, but I guess if I want resolution to this issue I will have to, arg
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 5,842
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From: Uh oh, CA
As mentioned above, if there is a bow in the axle, the bow should be pointed up, not down. I have heard of these being installed upside down though... and if you are having abnormal tire wear on the inside of the tires, that sounds like this could be why. Can you post a photo?
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
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Likes: 144
I tried posting a picture, it’s gets to 50% then won’t go any further.
the bow is down for sure, looks like it’s toe out a bit, bottom of tire further out than top.
the bow is down for sure, looks like it’s toe out a bit, bottom of tire further out than top.
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Moderator
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Sioux Falls Area
Are these spring axles or torsion axles?
torsion axles are particularly sensitive to the trailer being perfectly level. Any degree of nose up, and the rear axle takes all the weight.
torsion axles are particularly sensitive to the trailer being perfectly level. Any degree of nose up, and the rear axle takes all the weight.
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 144
Looks to be this set up:
The bullets usually have the spread axle and the Lippert Correct track suspension alignment. Like the following link.
I would measure the distance between axles on each side of the trailer. A difference in measurement should definitely be looked at.
That would be a good start.
I would look at all shackles, bolts, springs, etc. and ensure everything is tight and intact also.
I got this reply at the Keystone message board
The bullets usually have the spread axle and the Lippert Correct track suspension alignment. Like the following link.
I would measure the distance between axles on each side of the trailer. A difference in measurement should definitely be looked at.
That would be a good start.
I would look at all shackles, bolts, springs, etc. and ensure everything is tight and intact also.
I got this reply at the Keystone message board
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 502
Looks to be this set up:
The bullets usually have the spread axle and the Lippert Correct track suspension alignment. Like the following link.
https://www.amazon.ca/Lippert-87220-.../dp/B00JMHF15G
I would measure the distance between axles on each side of the trailer. A difference in measurement should definitely be looked at.
That would be a good start.
I would look at all shackles, bolts, springs, etc. and ensure everything is tight and intact also.
I got this reply at the Keystone message board
The bullets usually have the spread axle and the Lippert Correct track suspension alignment. Like the following link.
https://www.amazon.ca/Lippert-87220-.../dp/B00JMHF15G
I would measure the distance between axles on each side of the trailer. A difference in measurement should definitely be looked at.
That would be a good start.
I would look at all shackles, bolts, springs, etc. and ensure everything is tight and intact also.
I got this reply at the Keystone message board
If your axle is bowing down and you're not nose high (meaning you're potentially overloading the rear axle), it sounds like the axle could be upside down. All the symptoms you're describing seem to point to that also. It's also worth checking the axles themselves to make sure they're both the same. Very unlikely, but maybe they put a lighter axle on the rear and it's flexing out more than the front. Unlikely but worth a check, there should be tags on the axles confirming their carrying capacity.
You said this is a 2019 trailer, is it new to you or has it been towing this way for a couple years now?
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
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I bought it new off the lot, they did everything to it, even installed the load level weight distribution hitch on my truck to match the rig.
It pulls great, no sway, etc, and nobody else has said a thing.
Earlier this year a buddy was pulling his 5th behind me and said nothing about it, just this one guy?
The road was bumpy and twisty for sure so it was getting a good work out.
I am learning more than I even wanted to reading up, researching this stuff, seems to be two distinct beliefs on axle spread designs, like them or think they are no good because of the wheel tread issues and force it exhibits with turning....
I am in no position to offer any opinion other than why would a manufacturer risk exposure by selling units are not able to function safely and in the manner intended for use?
I am crawling up under it today and will check bolts and stuff for tightening, etc.
I did notice for the first time before I left in this trip the axle bow, as I really gave it a good pre trip inspection.... so was it like this always or not, I just don’t know.
It pulls great, no sway, etc, and nobody else has said a thing.
Earlier this year a buddy was pulling his 5th behind me and said nothing about it, just this one guy?
The road was bumpy and twisty for sure so it was getting a good work out.
I am learning more than I even wanted to reading up, researching this stuff, seems to be two distinct beliefs on axle spread designs, like them or think they are no good because of the wheel tread issues and force it exhibits with turning....
I am in no position to offer any opinion other than why would a manufacturer risk exposure by selling units are not able to function safely and in the manner intended for use?
I am crawling up under it today and will check bolts and stuff for tightening, etc.
I did notice for the first time before I left in this trip the axle bow, as I really gave it a good pre trip inspection.... so was it like this always or not, I just don’t know.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 144
Not sure if this might have caused it, or not, but I am thinking it sure could have contributed to some unintended movement....
the rear axle on both sides the clip/bracket that holds the leaf springs together in a stacked/vertical position had slipped out and moved forward and were no longer doing a darn thing that I could discern.
I was able to position them
back into position using the front axle as reference.
Nice and snugged now, I could see on a bumpy windy road how the spring might shift losing its optimal vertical support with all the deals directly upon one another....yes?
the rear axle on both sides the clip/bracket that holds the leaf springs together in a stacked/vertical position had slipped out and moved forward and were no longer doing a darn thing that I could discern.
I was able to position them
back into position using the front axle as reference.
Nice and snugged now, I could see on a bumpy windy road how the spring might shift losing its optimal vertical support with all the deals directly upon one another....yes?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 502
I'm assuming you're talking about the leaf spring retainers. As long as the leafs were still stacked, the retainer shifting won't do anything. Even if a leaf starts to walk out of the pack, it'd have to be damn near all the way out for it to really bother anything. Are the u-bolts that hold the axle to the leaf springs torqued? I'm still thinking you have an upside down axle.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 301
Likes: 144
I'm assuming you're talking about the leaf spring retainers. As long as the leafs were still stacked, the retainer shifting won't do anything. Even if a leaf starts to walk out of the pack, it'd have to be damn near all the way out for it to really bother anything. Are the u-bolts that hold the axle to the leaf springs torqued? I'm still thinking you have an upside down axle.
the back axle is in the same position as the front, the port that feeds the wires to the brakes both face rear, as does the serial number and weight data on the axle.
How would I determine if the axle is upside down?
I just used a crescents wrench in checking bolts, maybe I should go buy some sockets to really put some pressure on them?
should both of my axles be identical, they both have the same number but the front has no discernible bow at all, it looks straight?
also, the trailer now is setting up on some of those stacking blocks to level from side to side.
it looks like the side that was suspect, I think, is upon those blocks and appear to be holding up a bit more of the most now, not sure if that effects anything?
I wish I could post pictures by the device here is weak, and I believe it times out when trying to upload....???&
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 502
Take a quick look through this thread:
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=35938
Page 2 has a good visual. What happens when you put a 4' or 6' level on the bottom of the axle? That will tell you if the axle is actually bowed down or not. It also sounds like the axle being upside down is fairly unlikely based on how the axles are assembled and, if the axle is bowed down, it was either overloaded at some point or something else happened to it to make it that way (axle is bent).
I wouldn't go crazy with the u-bolts, if they're tight, just leave them be, you don't want to over torque them and strip or break them.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=35938
Page 2 has a good visual. What happens when you put a 4' or 6' level on the bottom of the axle? That will tell you if the axle is actually bowed down or not. It also sounds like the axle being upside down is fairly unlikely based on how the axles are assembled and, if the axle is bowed down, it was either overloaded at some point or something else happened to it to make it that way (axle is bent).
I wouldn't go crazy with the u-bolts, if they're tight, just leave them be, you don't want to over torque them and strip or break them.