I'm trying to diagnose a shifting issue in my 93 F150 with E4OD and 351w. When I shift from park to reverse I get a pretty harsh clunk, not as bad in drive though. Second and most concerning for me is 1st to 2nd while driving is a pretty hard shift most of the time. The rest of the shifts are better but still not perfect. I've done some research and found it could be a few sensors (MLPS, TPS, VSS) but I pulled codes and found nothing in my KOEO and KOER test. I don't think it's internal, the trans was rebuilt in 09 but only has 30k on the rebuild. I've also read it could be the trans mount, which I'm thinking about doing along with engine mounts. Anyways I guess my question is how much play should be present when prying in-between the crossmember and trans mount? I tried with a decent size screwdriver and I get some movement but I'm not sure what's normal. The rubber in the mount from what I can see doesn't look like it's in bad shape but can't get a great look at it. It's easy and cheap enough just to change but would rather not waste my time. Should there be much movement at all with just a screwdriver? Any input would be appreciated

 

You should be able to move it a bit with a screwdriver. The rubber is designed to allow it to move a little bit. Does it come right back to the same place when you let go? If not, the rubber is broken and the mount needs to be replaced. Do you get any clunks when you move it? If so, that is another indication the mount is bad.

Have you checked the u-joints? A bad u-joint can do this. You must remove the driveshaft to check the u-joints. In my opinion, checking them with the driveshaft in place is useless.

 

My truck shifts really hard into reverse, only when warm, cold its normal.
Also shifts fairly hard from 1-2, I always thought previous owner messed with something or put a shift kit in it.

My harsh reverse clunk is due to worn out clutches in the posi-trac rear end.

 

It seems to go right back into place, I'm only able to move it up and down slightly and it doesn't really make any noise when doing so. U-joints were the first thing I checked however my inspection was with the driveshaft in place. They looked okay and didn't seem to have any play.

Mine seems to do it cold or hot. As far as first to second goes, I find I can smooth the shift out by letting off the throttle just before it shifts.

 

That sounds normal.

With the driveshaft in place most of the time you won't see any play. That doesn't mean there is no play.

 

Well crap... sounds like I have another thing I need to check!

 

I think if I pull the driveshaft I’ll just end up replacing the the u-joints. I’m thinking about just doing all 3 mounts as well, just to rule them out for certain. All said it won’t cost much more than my Saturday. I plan on keeping this truck for awhile anyway, providing the trans doesn’t have something wrong internally. I’ll report back once I’m finished.

 

Subbing this thread --
Hope I'm not hijacking. I've got alarming lurch/vibration with clutch engagement from a standstill, plus shifter pulling/leaning to the passenger side with my foot on the gas. B-W T18 manual 4spd. Suspect the motor &/ trans mounts also but nothing seems wrong when I inspect them.

Keep us posted.

 

my truck doesn’t see any play with driveshaft in place, but could a worn u joint only transmit harshness in one direction? Like, from reverse to drive or park to reverse but not vibrate or do any noticeable things while driving?

 

Yes, I've seen that happen.

 

Okay thanks, I will prob pull my driveshaft at some point to check them because Im at 120k, but the truck has seen rather heavy use for a 3.08 2wd half ton and I definitely take very few prisoners with how i drive. The truck seems to behave strange on the shift from reverse to drive and I can replicate it without moving very far. I was going to check my motor mounts because the trans seems good. I imagine the inline 6 doesnt react as much as a v8 with worn mounts because of the more balanced nature.

If someone wants to see some violent action need look no further than my 80 gmc which has broken t case mount, twisted engine mounts, and the cmbo is 350sbc, np208, and sm465. scary. I love my 300 and e4od tho <3 after hammering out smallish gremlins from reading a few TSBs, fixing improper fluid fill, and verifying the cooler lines werent restricted, it now comfortably stays usually 50 degrees cooler than before, and if it gets up there in temp, it goes to 170-190 and just stays there, not getting in yikes territory anymore. Also hasnt puked half its fluid at all lately.

It seems to maintain a small drip from the dust plug (well it drips off the plug, comes from the front), but its manageable and isnt something to rip into for a seal since the oil leak from the oil pan takes the cake for the lead

Thank you mark for everything so far, we love you and value you as a member and a engineer in creating a very good transmission in that era which saw a lot of big changes for everyone with a need for electronic controls when they werent before and added features, more demands for speeds, etc.

I think the e4od may have had some rocky moments but I honestly dont think anyone can say it did a bad job. Especially when you consider the e4od was properly sized for its usage and holds its place in time. The 4l60e and 4t65e(for gm fwd cars) really really fumbled the ball on being sufficient from factory in their applications. GM should have used their own 4l80e and 4t80e in many more applications that they used their 4l60e and 4t65e and time has showed us that. The e4od worked well in the half ton 2wd truck like me all the way up to some heavy hitting 1 ton(possibly larger?) applications with appropiate changes for each application and the worst I can say was mine got hot and puked fluid and let me put more in and keep going only 7 times and didnt complain

thank you mark for cutting through the assumptions, the generalizations, and providing the truth/reality so people like myself and many others could enjoy their well built machines into the future.

I may be a girl who comes from a GM family and GM primary ownership but results always mean more than glorified idealization and I have also been the owner of a 96 c1500 which would be the embodiment of the same thing just from chevy, and it even was optioned so similar(base model with ac, block heater, auto trans) and Its night and day when it comes to "work truck" who wins

I just give the chevy a little kuods on the plastic quality for the front grille and headlights, no idea what happened there with the f150 lol
but ill take a 300 i6 with a e4od well before a 350(vortect) and 4l60e. My dad owns the chevy now, his is rusty to hell but its from his aggressive use too. It still does the job but he does admire the f150 more(he had a few from the era back in the day).

thanks mark

i know this was long but its meant with love <3

 

Actually, balance doesn't affect the mounts. It is torque that makes the engine move on the mounts, and the six has more torque than the small V8.

And you're welcome.

PS - I had very, very little to do with the E4OD. It was mostly developed before I joined Ford, and when I did join I spent the first few years working on front wheel drive transmissions.

 

well you know a lot about it, good enough for me lol
knowledge is power
also, I may not have any experience with fwd transmissions, but I want to drop kick my 4t65e-HD through a brick wall and I cant say there is a notoroious fwd trans from the era from ford that had as many predictable issues

THere is zero reason gm has a 4000 pound car being pulled by the 4t65e-HD with 250hp. They didnt put trans coolers in either, so the transmissions normal temperature cooks them out and if you like boost the transmission doesnt like you. as ive figured out.

my cousin left his 2003 taurus sitting in our yard for the past few months and they claimed it had transmission issues but I pointed out the clearrly not functioning proper throttle cable(stretched or something) and virtual no spring returning the throttle plate (weak or broke idk) and the clearly not properly adjusted shifter linkage but I was told it was clearly an electronic issue and there it sits. :|
i think he just felt emasculated that I pointed out 3 issues that would affect transmission behavior in most cars in 2 minutes that he didnt figure out after months of getting stranded

 

It’s hard not to like the old square body Chevys, the 350 was a great engine but it’s always been my personal opinion that the OBS Fords were the best trucks ever made. Great looks and perfect old school to modern functionality ratio.

Side note, this may be unrelated but on my way home from work last night my ABS light and red emergency brake light came on while driving. I read up on it and checked my master. The fluid is where it’s always been and I don’t see any leaks on any of the lines. This morning I fired it up and neither lights are on now. When I turned the key on both lights came on as normal and shut off. Both remained off the whole drive but now my emergency brake light doesn’t come on when it’s applied. Could this be a VSS issue? No idea how old the sensor is and I guess it can cause shifting issues? I ordered u-joints and mounts, hoping I didn’t waste my money.

 

I recommend getting Forscan. Then you can read the codes and know why the lights came on. Without the codes, all one can do is guess.