I guess I'm just going to have you guys tell me what I already know but don't want to hear...
Last year the top seam on my radiator blew out because of a faulty pressure cap, I think. Anyways it got hot as hell and banana'd the heads. I sent them to a machinist I had used for years, semi-retired, and told him I needed a great deal. He surfaced them, pressure tested, and ground one valve that had a slight leak. Didn't charge me much at all. When I got them back I noticed one valve stem sitting low, and carbon buildup on the rest so I pulled them all out to clean and fix the low one.
Well, I made a rookie mistake after too many years in the business and didn't remove the burr from the top of the valve stems before pulling them out and think I put a pretty good scratch in a valve guide or two. This was a fairly fresh, warmed-up motor built by a PO. Never used oil or smoked before. I have gone back in and replaced all the valve stem seals since then and finally got the china wall sealed up. What happens is upon a high vacuum situation, decelerating or downshifting, upon the next acceleration it puffs out a cloud of blue smoke. It's fine after that and on an extended freeway run it doesn't use a drop of oil.
So, I need to pull the heads back off and get the valve guides done. No two ways about it, right?

Dan, TK65

 

Valve seals or the intake gasket allow oil to be sucked from the valley. Since it's a decel/high vacuum condition that gives you the cloud, valve stem seals are the usual suspects. But since you just replaced them, you might as well explore the intake gasket possibility.

JMO.

 

Three basic paths for an excess of oil to get in to the combustion chamber... Valve seals/valve guides, through the intake ports via a gasket leak / bad PCV valve, or up past the rings on the pistons. Any chance you're dealing with too much oil in the pan and the counterweights on the crank are flinging up a bunch of oil drenching the rings? (this would be more of a gets worse as RPM increases issue) Road draft tube, or a PCV valve stuck open/closed? Valve stem seals are essentially wipers to remove excess oil, but if there's an open groove/gouge in the valve guide from the burrs, that isn't helping.

When the heads were milled back flat, was the angle corrected for the intake mounting surface to the heads?

 

That decel-accel-blows-smoke thing is almost 100% certain to be the intake gaskets.

 

It'll smoke two quarts down, so not splash. The heads were only milled on one side.

 

Krewat, how exactly does one test for that condition?

 

Welp, it goes like this:

1) Put your transmission into 2nd if it's a 435NP, or lock it in 1st if it's an automatic.
2) Rev it up to 3000+RPMs, and let off the go-pedal fast, leaving it in gear (don't step on the clutch).
3) Let the engine rev back down to near idle.
4) Hit the gas again, and accelerate fast.

If you see a big blue puff of smoke out the exhaust at step 4, but almost nothing at other times, it's almost certainly an intake leak where the intake meets the head. Pull the plugs, keeping track of which ones go where, and see if any are coated in oil.

In my totally unprofessional opinion, a valve guide, even all of them, won't smoke as much as an intake leak, and certainly not with that big puff in #4 above

Now, don't get me wrong, bad guides and flooded heads can smoke a lot too - but they usually smoke all the time.

 

Can you look through your carb into the intake and see if oil is pooling in the bottom of the intake?

If you suspect an intake leak and plan to remove the intake, check the angles of head to china wall and intake surfaces. Since you had a head shaved, the intake may not fit as well as it should.

If you have a PCV valve, can you install a trap to make sure it's not sucking oil? The PCV valve has to be selected to work with your particular engine combination otherwise it can suck lots of oil.

 

[QUOTE='65Ford;19909451]Can you look through your carb into the intake and see if oil is pooling in the bottom of the intake?

If you suspect an intake leak and plan to remove the intake, check the angles of head to china wall and intake surfaces. Since you had a head shaved, the intake may not fit as well as it should.

If you have a PCV valve, can you install a trap to make sure it's not sucking oil? The PCV valve has to be selected to work with your particular engine combination otherwise it can suck lots of oil.[/QUOT
Will look in the carb.
The intake does not fit great at all, it's an Edelbrock after all. China wall leaked, twice.
Have the same PCV as before heads came off.
Shouldn't be oil pooling in heads, I put the Holley jet restrictors in and the drains were clear.
I did not use the valley pan under the intake, is that a possible issue? I still have it, didn't feel like cleaning another goldurn thing when I got to that part.
Also, I'm pretty sure it's only smoking from the driver's side. I have true dual exhaust, no crossover or anything, and only see smoke on my side. Could just be that I can't see well out the right one but I think just one side.

This is The Marmon Wasp. Built by my great uncle and driven by Ray Harroun, It won the very first Indy 500. Just wanted to share that.

 

We might be on different pages here.

You'll have to look through the carb and into the intake to see if there's oil pooling in the intake, or remove the carb. This only tells you if oil is entering the intake but not how it's getting there. I suggested checking the angles of the china wall to heads and the corresponding intake surface to see if the angles are the same. These angles should not have an effect on oil leaking at the china wall but may allow oil to get sucked into the intake.

You won't know if oil is pooling in the heads unless you have a clear valve cover.

A PCV valve may go bad and you won't know if it's sucking oil unless you have a trap to catch oil. They can be bad even if they rattle.

Sounds like you may have a bad valve seal or two if it's smoking only on one side. Might look into the cylinders and at the plugs to see if oil is getting into only one side.

I don't expect the valley pan to make a difference in oil consumption. Guys with roller lifters usually don't use the pans.

 

If you decide to pull the intake manifold, the lower area of the intake gaskets is the area to examine closely, along with the intake ports of the heads for oil seepage during high vacuum conditions. If the machine shop had to do a heavy mill of the head to the block mating surface, that could cause the intake to not seal properly to the heads. Before pulling the intake, it wouldn't hurt to do the hillbilly vacuum leak check with a can of carb cleaner. Engine running, being careful to not get any of the spray in to the carb, short controlled shots of carb cleaner on each intake runner where they bolt to the heads. if the engine RPM changes, you have a vacuum leak at that port.

If you do pull the intake, once everything is clean, set the manifold back on dry with no gasket, and check the various surfaces with feeler gauges to find tight spots & gaps.

 

When I pulled the intake the first time after doing the heads, for a china wall leak, I took a good look at the gaskets and could see a depression, an imprint where the gaskets had been crushed by the intake being torqued. It was not impressive, but I could see it there. Maybe not enough to hold back vacuum which is said to be one of the most powerful forces in nature. The head was not milled a lot. This time. Not the first time this motor has been apart. Kind of hard to do the hillbilly vac leak check on an FE, think a smoke check on the crankcase might make it show? Either way, the intake is going to have to come off. The question really is, do the heads have to? Cause I'll do the intake in a half a day but the heads would mean some down time, more money, machine shop, you know.

Thanks, Dan. TK65

 

Yeah, on an FE you can carb cleaner check the 4 corners of the intake, middle 4 cylinders not so much. Smoke check on the intake runners with the PVC & fill cap pulled would probably help... Assuming you would pull the rocker covers and loosen the rocker shaft bolts to let all valves close.

 

I pulled the intake manifold last night. Shows imprint on gaskets but not impressed well. A couple intake runners are wet with oil. So now what, thicker gaskets
? A bead of vibratite around ALL the ports on the intake? Both? I am not pulling the heads off to have them machined. I dry fit the intake before installing last time and all the gaps were small and even. I used Fel-Pro 1247s-3 gaskets with copper spray and no gasket on the wall, just sealant. I'll add pics in another post, gotta use my phone.

 

I fought my leaky intake for a couple years. Tried 3 different gaskets from 2 manufacturers and 2 different RTVs and (knock on wood) finally found the right combo. I used to use Permatex Ultra Black but tried "The Right Stuff" and it made a huge difference. I used a couple sets of 1247s with the Ultra Black and went to the regular Edelbrock flat gaskets with Right Stuff. Of course no cork on the china walls either. Cleaned with acetone, goop the RTV, set the intake, torque it and let it cure overnight. Been sweet ever since; no leaks no more smoky exhaust. Good luck bro- I know you've been battling on your daily for a while!