I've never had to consider headers before now, but as I'm investing in a Edelbrock manifold (hard to get these days while Edelbrock is moving facilities) along with a 1405 Edel carb...headers are the final thing I want to look at upgrading at this time. I know nothing about headers so here goes...are shorty headers designed to copy the fit of the stock manifolds? In other words: do they have the outlet in the same location as the stock logs? I already had dual exhausts plumbed to the stock manifolds and I really don't want to have to modify the exhaust pipe plumbing if I really don't have to. As long as they're US made, are they all created equal, or is there a particular brand/model I should aim for? Or is the quality equally bad that replumbing of the exhaust pipes is inevitable? Are even the cheap aftermarket ones better than the stock manifolds?

Thanks for your help,

Geoff
69' F100 with Stock 360 and a C6

 

Hey Geoff. Great question. I don't know with 100% certainty, because there are always new offerings and new companies that I'm not keeping up with, but I would say that for your particular truck, no they are not made to mimic the stock manifolds. On the original shorties, designed to work on Mustangs, they were indeed designed to be not only smog legal but for no-modify installations using stock exhaust locations, or aftermarket cat-back systems. For our older trucks, with long since discontinued engines? First you'd be lucky to find shorties! But then if they are out there, it's very likely they only used the criteria that they fit the chassis and engine compartment, but not the actual factory locations of the exhaust. Probably not enough demand to get too technical with their specs.
But again, I could be totally off base with my thinking. I have not dug into the shorty for a '69 equation enough to be even remotely an expert.

A company that comes to mind would be Sandersen Headers out of So. San Francisco. Some other traditional shorty companies like JBA for sure, and perhaps even BBK and others are no longer even made here. JBA (who makes our Bronco headers) are now produced in Mexico under their new ownership. Sandersen (Sanderson?) on the other hand as far as I know, along with many others are still made in the US. But whether or not the USA companies make them for '66 to '72 Ford trucks is another matter.

Anyway, don't mean to be a Debbie downer and negative Nelly, so hopefully someone with more recent knowledge will correct me if I'm wrong, or left out some important issues.
As to whether or not they are better than stock manifolds or not, it totally depends on the manifold you're comparing them to, and on what engine, and on whether or not it's been modified. Yep, like so many other things, it's not clear cut. But as a general rule of thumb, you can consider even a shorty header at least a slight flow improvement over most stock Ford truck exhaust manifolds. I'm sure some were decent, and models like K-code 289 manifolds are considered very desirable from that standpoint. But in most of our applications I'd say the improvement goes to the tubular header. Even the shorty ones, which are acknowledged to almost always be less effective than their full-length counterparts. But a LOT easier to install and connect! That's their main claim to fame in fact.
Bottom line as always though, is whether any will be enough for you to feel or not. I'd say yes, but it's not like you're adding 40hp by installing shorties. Just that it still depends on how else the engine is modified.

Sorry for the long winded discussion on some stuff you may already have known. Just fun to talk about headers and all their pros and cons. I'm a fan of tubular headers myself, but if I could find a really great breathing set of cast iron manifolds for my engines, I'd be sorely tempted to stick with them instead. Just fewer chances of the usual header issues. But improved flow wins out over originality for me, if no alternative is found.

Good luck in the hunt. Hopefully someone has some currently installed models they can relate their experiences with. I wonder if Hooker makes any mid-length headers for older engines? Might be worth a look.
Have you done any deep searching yet for your particular setup? Is it a 2wd or a 4wd truck by the way?

Paul

 

I should add that my own experience was limited because when I tried to install a really sweet looking set of Dynomax ceramic coated headers on the 400 in my '79 they hit the frame and I had to take them back.
Yes, I probably could have made them fit, by either twisting the engine in the cradles, tweaking the header tubes, or notching the frame (not an option for me!) but I opted instead to return them before I buggered the expensive finish.
Instead I retained the stock manifolds (new one replaced a cracked one) and had them ceramic coated in a black finish. I think that will help under hood temps, but I have to remember to take it easy during the initial cam break-in procedure and make sure the tune is spot on, so I don't ruin a brand new coating!

I don't think the 400 manifolds are as bad as some, but they're still pretty choked off compared to tubular headers. At the time I did not check on Sanderson because I didn't have any money and the Dynomax's were cheap. Got what I paid for though, I guess.
But at least now I get to experiment with overall exhaust tubing size, routing and muffler choices to see if I get enough improvement in flow/performance to satisfy me.

Paul

 

Geoff

Sanderson does make a shorty for the 360-390 FE. You can call and talk to a real person at Sanderson as well who could tell you anything you would like to know. That is about the only one I know for sure that has a shorty for the FE. All the others, Patriot, FPA, JBA, Stan's, and Hooker make a variation of the long tube in a 4 into 1 or 4 into 2 into 1 tri Y. 2WD applications are much easier to work with but I'm not sure what you have.

CStoyer

 

Paul and CS,

Thanks for your replies! It seems as though some level of replumbing will be inevitable. I will reach out to Sanderson and see what my luck will be with them. Paul - long-windedness makes for great discussions!

Cheers!

Geoff

 

Have you tried looking at Heddman Headers.?

 

I have - they look like they might work, but no manufacturer comes out and says that their headers open up in the stock manifold location, and that's what I'm ideally after.

 

Just looking at my own vehicles past and present, so many of the stock manifolds terminated right at the back of the head and just below, and the exhaust tubing came right up almost to the junction of the bell housing and engine. This would in my opinion make for some EXTREEEEMLY tightly wound headers in order to mate up with a still-stock exhaust.
I think most header manufacturers are so much more interested in performance than stock-fitment (performance is their claim to fame after all) that most would be hard pressed to even want to make a set to fit. Much less actually come out with them.
Again, especially for a 52 year old vehicle.

Crossing fingers and laying high hopes on Sanderson.

Paul

 

Paul,

The English have a saying..."in for a penny...in for a pound..." I need to stop trying to cheap myself out of the issue. I need to purchase the header of choice, and resign myself to the fact that things may not line up and replumbing may/will be necessary. Thank you for your convincing dialog and reality check!

Geoff

 

UKPR1, I have a 71' F250 w/ 360 and the only options I have are the Sanderson FF427CS or the Kugel Komponents FE Manifolds. Like you, the plumbing will need reworked when I add the shorty hearders...next on my list after new rear brakes.

 

Eric,

Thanks for your reply. I have plonked down on the coated headers from Sanderson which for some reason will take about 3 weeks to get to me. But they are ordered, the money is spent, and the healing can begin. By the time they get here, it will almost be like getting them for free!

Lol.

Geoff

 

3 weeks isn't terrible....a lot of vendors are way back ordered. What starter do you have? If you already haven't, I think you'll be swapping for a mini-torque.