I had a conversation the other day with a man from Spain. The subject was about how confusing he found America to be. The problem had to do with nudity and violence. He related to me that in Spain there are many nude beaches and on TV and in magazines and newspapers you see breif nudity and sexual content all the time. Usually in a tasteful manner. Europeans do not have any "hangups" with regard to nudity and sexuality like Americans do. In America sex and nudity is considered Taboo and scandalous. Apparently we Americans get embarassed with our own bodies and sexuality when confronted with it, we become indignant with moral rage at blatant sexuality.
However it is the opposite with violence. In America we immerse ourselves in violence. It is apparent on our televisions, music, movies and everyday life. Our crime rates reflect a "culture of violence". In Europe the majority of people abhore the blatant glorification of violence. They find it offensive when it is displayed on televisions, they don't let their children watch it or play the offensive violent video games to the degree that Americans do.
The overall point of the conversation came down to this.....How can Americans be so offended by sex and nudity and yet be desensitized to offensive violence and destruction. What's worse seeing two people making love and a beautiful human body on display or seeing people being shot and murdered and violence glorified?

 

To a certain extent, our attitudes in both areas are strongly influenced by our beginnings as a country. The Puritan mindset runs deep here in terms of morality. Generations have been taught that sex and the human body are sinful and these ideas have been passed from generation to generation.

Likewise, our violent beginning and the westward expansion through the beginning of the 20th century has been glamorized in the popular media, thus broadening the appeal.

 

I got slammed the other day on another thread trying to approach this general topic as it pertained to what you might let your young daughter wear out.

Our sexual repression is as old as our country itself. In the few times I've had the pleasure of spending time in European countries I am always refreshed by their attitudes.

As far as violence goes we are not the only nation that glorifies violence in film. Ever watch any Japanese movies? The Japanese in real life have very little violent crime.

 

TX Splash certainly offers a rational and logical explination - however accurate it may or my not ultimately be.

But to answer your question directly: HECK YES IT'S BACKWARDS!!!

I didn't even need multiple brain cells firing to know I'd heck of a lot rather see neked ladies on TV than Kojack slapping around some wiseguy!!

(ON EDIT: say, I wonder if Hollywood could work out some kind of "boob to bullet ratio" to fix this. Say; two less bullets, one more visable boob. . . . or something like that. Huuummmmm!!!!)

 

Yes, NORTH AMERICA is backwards.

Sinjin got ripped in another thread by those that said any display of flesh by a young woman would provoke an attack by males who could not control themselves.

Is it not interesting then, that in European countries such as Spain, where nudity is common, that violent crime against women is much lower than here in North America?

I think bigdmizer's post makes an excellent point, and it's one that we should examine as a "culture". I'm not saying we need to abandon all violence and go hippy, but where should the line be?

Interesting.

Waxy

 

It is indeed an interesting question.

The bottom line is that certain things sell. The "guidelines" for what is allowed on publicly available television were established many years ago and did not include the allowance for skin, language, and violence.

Unfortunately, since those sell, the producers of any given show push the allowances to the brink of getting in trouble. Occasionally, they push just beyond to see if they will get a slap on the wrist or not. If they don't, a new bar is set and others are now "allowed" to feel free to hit this bar.

As an example, my wife and I were watching ER last Thursday night. Did anybody catch that they did a full chest shot of the old lady? She was in cardiac arrest and needed the shocker. They ripped her shirt off and, for a brief couple of seconds, the was completely exposed from the waist up.

Additionally, has anybody noticed the level of language "allowed" on TV today? Shy of putting all the words I've heard on here (and getting in trouble with the moderators ), I've recently heard: s--t, a--, a--h---, b----, and a variety of others. I think the only one that is still deemed too high for the current bar is the granddaddy f word.

How can they do this? I think many of them are hiding behind the little tv rating crap that we currently have. Just because you splash a little TV-V for 5 seconds at the beginning of the show, you should not have free reign to demonstrate murders, slashings, stalkings, etc. Stop hiding behind the "rating game".

But I digress. Certain things sell because they are considered taboo. If your show can push the limit and demonstrate something that no other show does, people will watch it.

Consider the reverse of this. What if there were no limits on public viewing? Nudity and violence could be the "norm". People would be less apt to watch for the sheer sock value of a given show.

Indeed America is backwards. We teach that nudity is taboo. Conversely we teach that violence, language, and "sexual preference" is acceptable.

Where is morality?

The bottom line is that morality does not sell.

 

Morality sells just fine in politics. It's a load of crap used to get the "prude" vote.

 

Prude vote, which includes the Jesus vote? Where hypocrisy has a real meaning? Same voters catered to by the War Against Drugs? Where we spend many billions to eliminate any chance of getting tax revenue on a popular commodity? The US has a very poor record of legislating morality, unless, of course, it gets votes. All those people who talk about the declining US morality always makes me wonder who’s buying the products to keep those enterprises so profitable. **** is by far the biggest moneymaker on the Internet.

 

"Money maker" possibly. But most purchased, . . respectfully, no it is not.

Music and books.

check it out.

FWIW.

 

Wow- have we actually found a topic we can all agree on? I'm waiting for one of us to jump in here and justify this society's fascination with violence. It is amazing that we'll let our 14-year-old sons watch untold amount of violence, play incredibly-violent video games (those things REALLY scare me, more so than TV or movies), yet just FREAK OUT if he should spot an exposed nipple. Truly our country's greatest hypocrisy. So, any takers for the "devil's advocate" response?

 

It is disturbing to think that this country does shun one and advocate the other. Personally I'd prefer that we shunned both. If you want your devil's advocate. Here I am.

Ok here's my take, The reason violence is so easy to let slide is because I think that people are able to more easily accept that fact that this is not real. I'm not saying that these things dont have an effect on the human psyche, but we see horrid violence and extreme gore and we say that's not real and don't give it a second thought

Nudity, on the other hand, is REAL! These are things which really cannot be faked or dramatized. And that is probably the kicker. There is no way to rationalize it so we taboo it.

Personally, I would never allow my children to see a violent movie or a movie containing nudity, because both can harm the psychological well being of a person, especially that of a child. I believe that is where most of our problems are. Parents let their children view material which is too graphic for their underdeveloped minds and they think what they see on tv is real. I especially find pornography more addicting than any narcotic and would never subject children to such things. This is how rapists and child molestors are bred.

I don't think America is backwards. America is America. We are the greatest nation in the world. We lead the way. We are who we are and cannot be compared to another country. We are not backward. We are American. All I really have to say for those who think it is better in one of those other countries is noone is keeping you here. Have fun in Spain or France or England or whereever. Thanks for reading this rant. I'll probably gain a lot of criticism for this. Oh well.

 

Can't argue with that, but profit is normally the gauge of success for a commercial venture. I believe Amazon has yet to provide a return on investment. My point was that with Internet **** generating what I'm led to believe is substantial profits, who's watching and paying for it? The majority that votes against public nudity, drugs and other supposedly immoral acts against society? The same people who provide money for their children to do as they wish?

Our general reactions to most acts considered immoral have about as much validity as the rhetoric spewed by politicians on a constant basis. I think it has a lot to do with our ‘we are perfect’ and the rest of the world is wrong attitude, generally derived from a lack of exposure to other cultures. Americans, when compared to other countries with disposable incomes, are not much for traveling if it can’t be done in the relative shelter of a vehicle where destination is the primary objective. Packaged tours outside the US, if taken in the company of carefully selected peer groups, seem to be acceptable. Most countries have carefully arranged ‘color’ to accommodate the tastes of those groups and keep them away from the general population. We are not generally known as considerate or appreciative travelers. Double standards seem to be our forte in all things we’re not familiar with or conditioned to, including our sense of right and wrong. We’ll see if the economic sleigh ride being over changes or solidifies that.

 

No, not really criticism. But I sure would like to know where you got that stuff you're smoking.

You said:"Personally, I would never allow my children to see a violent movie or a movie containing nudity, because both can harm the psychological well being of a person, especially that of a child."

#1 - Children come into the world naked. They are *taught* to be clothed and to accept clothing. They are *taught* nudity is unacceptable and offensive. I don't think I have ever met a three year old that would not have preferred to be naked.

#2 - Can you imaging the trauma that child will suffer the first time the encounter violence or nudity FOR REAL AND IN PERSON? It is a very, very, very safe bet, they will encounter one or both before they are even teenagers.

Oh, and my friend, as far as my being free to leave or accept your view; Thanks - but I'll stand a fight, naked and bloody in the street, first.


. . . I'm goign to soak my head in a bucket of ice water now.

 

I'll have to agree here. I don't think its good to completely put blinders on children. Filter, yes, but don't completely shelter them. Instead teach them what the world is about and help them understand right from wrong. This way they won't be impaled by it the first time they run into it for the first time.

For example, my 7 year old daughter knows of many of the "bad" words out there. She knows that some people say them because they don't have other words to express themselves. She knows that she is not to do it and that it is not acceptible in our house. With this realization she is able to handle situations far better than I would have hoped. She understands how some people act and can formulate her own proper responses to them. All without having to completely shelter her from reality.

 

Splitmaster,

On the subject of nudity and children I have to respectfully disagree with you. I don't believe that a child that is brought up with knowing what the human body looks like with out clothes can make them be a rapist or molestor. Look at the other cultures in the jungles. For the most part they are naked.

If you raise a child right and they grow accostomed to whats out there they can adapt and respond more accordingly. They formulate their own decisions and actions.

Now I'm not saying you sit them down for a bloody movie or bring them ****. But rather show them what is out there in the world while under your guidance so you can teach them moral values.