Trailer for Towing
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 314
Likes: 13
I regularly tow 14-18k with a tag trailer. If it is loaded correctly they pull fine. Yesterday I had 1 load of topsoil that was 19k with the trailer at 4600lbs. The only time I have ever used a w/d hitch is with a large camper that was a weight located mess. No tong weight for what it weighed. The 3" SD hitch is rated for 21k trailer and 2100lbs tong. I prefer a tag trailer for how they follow the truck and leaving the bed for full use. For the weight you are talking about a pull behind [tag] is fine. I had located a 21k tilt tag trailer but a good friend has a 30ft tandem dual gooseneck that he made me a great deal on. I can double my pin weight with it so that is the direction I am going but keeping my 3 pull behinds because a gooseneck is too much hassle for quick trips and local runs. I sold one years ago for that reason. Cj
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Tuned
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 322
Likes: 100
Your concerns about the "flexing" and "stresses" on the "upside down U shape" of the gooseneck trailer can be resolved in the selection of the brand of gooseneck trailer that you end up purchasing.
Some brands of gooseneck trailers are built to sell. Other brands are built to last.
Yet other brands build both types... cheap ones that sell quickly because they appear to the new buyer's eyes as offering a better "value" as they are more affordably attainable than other models of equivalent deck length... and more expensive ones in the same deck length and GVW class that seem astronomical in price, but are constructed with features like torque tubes, high strength low alloy steel, more engineering sophistication in the neck geometry, etc.
The fact remains that with a conventional bumper pull trailer, the tongue weight is cantilevered 5 feet behind the support point where the rear axle contacts the ground. And with the gooseneck, the tongue weight is supported directly above, or an inch ahead of where the support point where the rear axle engages the ground. Your initial instinct on wanting that weight directly supported over the rear axle is a valid voice to listen to. Resolve your concerns about the goosneck construction by selecting a GOOD gooseneck trailer, not by price, but by reputation of quality, and by construction details in the specifications, and by reading candid reviews on hotshotter and farming forums.
As to your purpose... moving from SoCal to SoOr... if that move is one time, and permanent, then I advise that you turn in your CA license, get an OR license, and register your vehicles in OR first before you make the move. Also, since there is no sales tax in OR, you might want to purchase your trailer in OR, perhaps on the same trip when you established DMV residency, vehicle registration, and driver's license in OR, in order to reduce the number of trips and save time and fuel. Bring the empty trailer back to CA, and wait for your plates to come in the mail, forwarded to your CA address by a service or neighbor at your OR residence.
This way, when you make your multiple loaded trips of your big move, you will do so as an OR resident just passing through, operating under OR licensing law under state reciprocity. It is assumed that OR law is more lenient than CA law, even while Federal DOT law prevails regardless. But the purpose of changing state of principle residence is actually psychological warfare against the CHP officer on the side of the road. He/she will be confident (typically over confident) in their professed knowledge of the CA Vehicle Code, and will have access on their computer to look anything up they don't know. But they will not be so confident with out of state laws, and where it boils down to a judgement call by the officer on the side of the road to make you park it and call in a properly licensed driver, or let you go... they will likely let you go on good faith.
It will also help that you show evidence of the CA address that you are moving from, so that it is clear that the purpose of your trip isn't commercial or compensated. You are moving your own property. (Carry the title to any tractor that you haul, showing your name on the title).
This is all really important. In CA, officers on the side of the road will simply add the GVWR of your truck plus the GVWR of your trailer. If your truck's GVWR is 10,000 lbs GVWR, and the trailer you are considering purchasing is 17,000 GVWR, then it doesn't matter if that trailer is empty... you'll be leaving that rig on the side of the road until a properly licensed driver can come collect it for you.
Any trailer built sturdily enough to carry a 13,000 Case 580C backhoe will likely weigh at least 4,500 lbs empty, unless you get an aluminum deck ($$$$$), so shopping for a 17K GVWR trailer is not an unreasonable choice. It is simply an unlawful option to tow for holders of regular Class C driver's licenses. Some work around include having the trailer dealer you purchase the trailer from request a derated sticker from the trailer manufacturer. Many a trailer sold in CA is rated to 9,990 lbs GVWR on the sticker, while built identical to a 14K GVWR in actuality, which includes the axles and tires.
Restickering has the advantage of addressing the two different type of cops on the side of the road... those who merely add up GVWRS are satisfied that you are "under" the legal limit... and the smarter cops who actually know a thing or two about transportation safety, and look at the individual ratings of your tires and axles, and compare them to the actual weights they measured from the portable scale that they called in where they stopped you, or the weigh station they dragged you to... may be satisfied... because those guys know the sticker game, and actually care whether or not you are operating safely, and it could be that your actual weight is under the 26K limit, while your axle and tire weights are not exceeded.
You are right on the line... so any advantage you can squeeze from the timing and choices you make at this juncture might make the difference. And the funny thing is, they might not matter at all if you make the one time trip in the middle of the night and are never stopped. The problem is, what if you are. Or what if someone runs into you. Are you prepared. And that is why you are here, asking questions. To be prepared.
Some brands of gooseneck trailers are built to sell. Other brands are built to last.
Yet other brands build both types... cheap ones that sell quickly because they appear to the new buyer's eyes as offering a better "value" as they are more affordably attainable than other models of equivalent deck length... and more expensive ones in the same deck length and GVW class that seem astronomical in price, but are constructed with features like torque tubes, high strength low alloy steel, more engineering sophistication in the neck geometry, etc.
The fact remains that with a conventional bumper pull trailer, the tongue weight is cantilevered 5 feet behind the support point where the rear axle contacts the ground. And with the gooseneck, the tongue weight is supported directly above, or an inch ahead of where the support point where the rear axle engages the ground. Your initial instinct on wanting that weight directly supported over the rear axle is a valid voice to listen to. Resolve your concerns about the goosneck construction by selecting a GOOD gooseneck trailer, not by price, but by reputation of quality, and by construction details in the specifications, and by reading candid reviews on hotshotter and farming forums.
As to your purpose... moving from SoCal to SoOr... if that move is one time, and permanent, then I advise that you turn in your CA license, get an OR license, and register your vehicles in OR first before you make the move. Also, since there is no sales tax in OR, you might want to purchase your trailer in OR, perhaps on the same trip when you established DMV residency, vehicle registration, and driver's license in OR, in order to reduce the number of trips and save time and fuel. Bring the empty trailer back to CA, and wait for your plates to come in the mail, forwarded to your CA address by a service or neighbor at your OR residence.
This way, when you make your multiple loaded trips of your big move, you will do so as an OR resident just passing through, operating under OR licensing law under state reciprocity. It is assumed that OR law is more lenient than CA law, even while Federal DOT law prevails regardless. But the purpose of changing state of principle residence is actually psychological warfare against the CHP officer on the side of the road. He/she will be confident (typically over confident) in their professed knowledge of the CA Vehicle Code, and will have access on their computer to look anything up they don't know. But they will not be so confident with out of state laws, and where it boils down to a judgement call by the officer on the side of the road to make you park it and call in a properly licensed driver, or let you go... they will likely let you go on good faith.
It will also help that you show evidence of the CA address that you are moving from, so that it is clear that the purpose of your trip isn't commercial or compensated. You are moving your own property. (Carry the title to any tractor that you haul, showing your name on the title).
This is all really important. In CA, officers on the side of the road will simply add the GVWR of your truck plus the GVWR of your trailer. If your truck's GVWR is 10,000 lbs GVWR, and the trailer you are considering purchasing is 17,000 GVWR, then it doesn't matter if that trailer is empty... you'll be leaving that rig on the side of the road until a properly licensed driver can come collect it for you.
Any trailer built sturdily enough to carry a 13,000 Case 580C backhoe will likely weigh at least 4,500 lbs empty, unless you get an aluminum deck ($$$$$), so shopping for a 17K GVWR trailer is not an unreasonable choice. It is simply an unlawful option to tow for holders of regular Class C driver's licenses. Some work around include having the trailer dealer you purchase the trailer from request a derated sticker from the trailer manufacturer. Many a trailer sold in CA is rated to 9,990 lbs GVWR on the sticker, while built identical to a 14K GVWR in actuality, which includes the axles and tires.
Restickering has the advantage of addressing the two different type of cops on the side of the road... those who merely add up GVWRS are satisfied that you are "under" the legal limit... and the smarter cops who actually know a thing or two about transportation safety, and look at the individual ratings of your tires and axles, and compare them to the actual weights they measured from the portable scale that they called in where they stopped you, or the weigh station they dragged you to... may be satisfied... because those guys know the sticker game, and actually care whether or not you are operating safely, and it could be that your actual weight is under the 26K limit, while your axle and tire weights are not exceeded.
You are right on the line... so any advantage you can squeeze from the timing and choices you make at this juncture might make the difference. And the funny thing is, they might not matter at all if you make the one time trip in the middle of the night and are never stopped. The problem is, what if you are. Or what if someone runs into you. Are you prepared. And that is why you are here, asking questions. To be prepared.
Y2KW57,
First off I would like to recognize you for the time and effort you put into your post your remarkable response!!! Second, I am thankful for your knowledgeable grasp on the entire scope of this issue as well as the "bigger" picture. Your points are well taken and you mentioned a couple of items I need to do some research on. My Oregon residence is in my name and my truck is registered and plated in Oregon. Tho it took 4 months of waiting for the OR DMV to do it! No OR DL, they are still back logged by up to 3 months.. Just as you pointed out, residency is a key point and to that end I carry a copy of all my house purchase documents and truck purchase documents with me. Regarding the weight issue, I have considered removing the front bucket- saves 758 pounds of weight and/or once the tractor is on the trailer, I can put it on blocks and remover the rear tires. I was curious about how much they weighed without water in them. So before I put them back on during the restoration I weighed them. They are 593 pounds each. Then the ultimate solution would be to hire a truck driver who needs a back haul back to Oregon. Got one estimate for $2500. That's when I thought that money would be better spent as an investment rather then a fee.
Again, thank you for your thoughts, quite insightful.
Thanks to every one who took the time to respond.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,250
Likes: 192
From: Livingston Tx
That weight gooseneck dont even look at a bumper pull. Also factor in trailer weight as well on what the trailer is rated for. I would look at a dual tandem probably 25+5 rated at 24-26k and you will be good.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,303
Likes: 6,079
Y2KW57,
First off I would like to recognize you for the time and effort you put into your post your remarkable response!!! Second, I am thankful for your knowledgeable grasp on the entire scope of this issue as well as the "bigger" picture. Your points are well taken and you mentioned a couple of items I need to do some research on. My Oregon residence is in my name and my truck is registered and plated in Oregon. Tho it took 4 months of waiting for the OR DMV to do it! No OR DL, they are still back logged by up to 3 months.. Just as you pointed out, residency is a key point and to that end I carry a copy of all my house purchase documents and truck purchase documents with me. Regarding the weight issue, I have considered removing the front bucket- saves 758 pounds of weight and/or once the tractor is on the trailer, I can put it on blocks and remover the rear tires. I was curious about how much they weighed without water in them. So before I put them back on during the restoration I weighed them. They are 593 pounds each. Then the ultimate solution would be to hire a truck driver who needs a back haul back to Oregon. Got one estimate for $2500. That's when I thought that money would be better spent as an investment rather then a fee.
Again, thank you for your thoughts, quite insightful..
First off I would like to recognize you for the time and effort you put into your post your remarkable response!!! Second, I am thankful for your knowledgeable grasp on the entire scope of this issue as well as the "bigger" picture. Your points are well taken and you mentioned a couple of items I need to do some research on. My Oregon residence is in my name and my truck is registered and plated in Oregon. Tho it took 4 months of waiting for the OR DMV to do it! No OR DL, they are still back logged by up to 3 months.. Just as you pointed out, residency is a key point and to that end I carry a copy of all my house purchase documents and truck purchase documents with me. Regarding the weight issue, I have considered removing the front bucket- saves 758 pounds of weight and/or once the tractor is on the trailer, I can put it on blocks and remover the rear tires. I was curious about how much they weighed without water in them. So before I put them back on during the restoration I weighed them. They are 593 pounds each. Then the ultimate solution would be to hire a truck driver who needs a back haul back to Oregon. Got one estimate for $2500. That's when I thought that money would be better spent as an investment rather then a fee.
Again, thank you for your thoughts, quite insightful..
Each round trip is $450 in fuel, which is the same non recoverable flush down the toilet as fees paid to a shipper.
To come up with the fuel cost per round trip, I used your spreadsheet from another thread, and from that took your lowest finding, 15 mpg, assuming that it may likely be lower when fully loaded on the way up, and higher when empty on the way down... unless you found a back haul load that would cover your return costs... but the issues doing that are compound. Everyone is moving from CA to OR, not the other way around. And then once you haul for someone else, and they compensate you with fuel, you are technically commercial, and do you really want to be responsible for someone else's stuff?
Some people do. And they register with online dispatchers like "U Ship", where customers describe their load and their from and to zip codes, and independent "shippers" give quotes. Sort of like the Uber / Lyft of less than truck load hauling. U Ship is a resource to investigate, as a potential provider, but more practically as a client.
Only thing is, with all your steel plate, the well piping (which I assume you are not selling locally as you will need it for fencing and cross fencing the new place in OR), the tractor, the bucket, the spare buckets/attachment, and other stuff... you no doubt already have a full Class 8 lo boy truck load,
Which gets back to the fuel cost that you might spend hauling it yourself. 750 miles each way, 1,500 miles per round trip, 100 gallons per round trip journey, $4.50 per gallon (the likely price when you make your trips, even at lowest cost truck stops you pre plan your refueling at), and even if fuel is available at $4.25 per gallon, there is still some cost for the fuel additives you might use, so $4.50 per gallon is reasonable (for CA and So OR), which means $450 per round trip.
So far, based on the materials you've described and a rough estimation of weight for those materials, it looks like 4 round trips would be needed thus far, not counting any household goods, hobby cars, roll-away tool boxes, etc. So $1,800 in fuel, vs $2,500 in fees. Is the $700 balance worth the 140 hours behind the wheel (adding the drive time for four round trips) for you to deliver the same goods to your northern residence? $5 an hour? That $2,500 bid is starting to look not too bad.
But I wonder if you could do even better, by surveying all the major manufacturing operations in Oregon whose products are exported to So Cal? Companies like Highway Products, RedMan Trailer Manufacturing, Oregon Trail'R, Outdoors RV Manufacturing, Forest River Manufacturing, Northwood MFG, BedSlide, TheTruckVault, (the latter two companies may have changed hands, but Highway Products is expanding). How do these Made In Oregon companies ship their large, non UPSable automotive, truck and RV products south to SoCal, the car and truck capital of the world? What freight companies do they use? What dispatch services manage the logistics? Are their haulers having to dead head back? Can you find an independent who can handle and is willing to take a load off your hands?
Will that extra $700 spent be less than the depreciation hit on the new trailer you purchase to do it yourself? If you are moving to your forever homestead, will you realistically need that trailer again? And can you resell it used for as much where you are going, than you could where you came from, but that isn't worth the trip to go back to?
And if you happen to get a ticket operating out of class, how much will the fine be, and how difficult will it be to get to the courthouse of the jurisdiction somewhere in the middle of CA (likely Los Banos) to defend yourself, if trial by declaration is not an option, or not as credible as you showing up in person?
If you already owned the trailer, it would be much harder to ignore the call of DIY duty. But having to purchase the trailer, and the fuel, and spend the time, over multiple trips, all with eyes glued to the rear view mirror, while having heart palpations when passing each roadside scale... there are some valid arguments for paying those fees for professional third party transport, because the costs to DIY are also unrecoverable, even if they are different costs.
Just some additional thoughts on the entire effort, and the ultimate end game.
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