T4 basics
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: NorCal
T4 basics
Someone recently said that I seemed like "a T4 kind of guy". Not knowing if those were fighting words or a compliment, I turned to google. Found this backgrounder on T3 and T4 turbos. It comes from a Subaru-centric shop in SoCal, but seemed to be a good overview of turbo basics for those of us new to the PSD 7.3L platform. Any comments by the veterans on the information summarized there?
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2009
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From: Tobyhanma, PA
That info sounds pretty good. There are alot more variations. I have a T4i setup on my truck. It's a kit made by Hypermax. From what I've gathered the T4i sits lower then a normal T4 setup.
There are lots of T4 kits out there but they're expensive to swap. I never had a stock turbo so idk how big a difference it is.
There are lots of T4 kits out there but they're expensive to swap. I never had a stock turbo so idk how big a difference it is.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 284
From: NT, See you in the
Depends what you're looking to do and what you're looking to spend. Unless you're going to put modestly bigger injectors the drop in stuff from KC turbos is very good. They have SXE style turbines that drop into our stock turbos. While not exactly the same as an SXE, you will get much better performance for a fraction of the cost of a T4 while not needing to mess around with alot of other stuff.
That being said I WANT to do a T4 mount, but I'm also not discounting the KC stuff.
That being said I WANT to do a T4 mount, but I'm also not discounting the KC stuff.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 949
Likes: 109
From: Fowler Colorado
I have a Kc stage 1 drop in. 63/70 with a .84 housing and I love it. Great performance. If I were to start getting over 550 ish horsepower I’d switch to T4 definitely for the variety of turbo combos. the budget and the performance of the kc unit has been awesome for a year now and I don’t regret it. If I had the budget for it before I would’ve loved the T4 route not gonna lie
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: NorCal
Thank you both. Helpful pespective. Just spent an hour on the KC website, reading some of their blog articles, watching a few videos, and shopping around the product line. If my primary goal is stronger towing (skidsteer 10,000# and airstream 8,000#), and not off-the-line performance or top end, can you give me a sense for how many $$ => how many additional feet pounds of torque? Agree the KC replacement turbine+wheel for the stock housing is interesting. I can only assume the $/ft-lb go up as you progress from basic turbine/compressor upgrades to SXE to T4? I see KC has a ~$4,000 7.3L Towing upgrade, but they don't quote any dyno numbers for stock vs kit upgrade. Not after every last foot pound, but an economical choice of bang-for-buck. I also have the Hydra kit still new in box, so plenty-o-fun still ahead on that front.
EDIT: for example, this Riffraff wheel claims 38 ft-lb increase in torque for $179, so ignoring labor for the moment, that's $4.70 per ft-lb increase.
EDIT: for example, this Riffraff wheel claims 38 ft-lb increase in torque for $179, so ignoring labor for the moment, that's $4.70 per ft-lb increase.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,231
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From: NT, See you in the
If towing is your end all be all goal, I don't see why 160/0 or 160/30 injectors and a KC stage 1 turbo wouldn't do wonders for what you're after.
A 363 SXE turbo large or small turbine will also do great for around this injector size. If you look close on the specs of the stage 1 KC turbos you'll notice the turbine side and compressor side are very similar sizing wise to the 363 SXE.
You ideally want both matched as close as possible. Too big on the turbo and its going to be a hot laggy mess. A smaller turbo will spool faster (all things being equal) and that is what you want when tugging big stuff.
Tuning will also play a big part in getting your towing rig dialed in.
A 363 SXE turbo large or small turbine will also do great for around this injector size. If you look close on the specs of the stage 1 KC turbos you'll notice the turbine side and compressor side are very similar sizing wise to the 363 SXE.
You ideally want both matched as close as possible. Too big on the turbo and its going to be a hot laggy mess. A smaller turbo will spool faster (all things being equal) and that is what you want when tugging big stuff.
Tuning will also play a big part in getting your towing rig dialed in.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 200
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From: NorCal
Thanks Jake. Very helpful.
This KC Turbo article on upgrading a 7.3L with new turbo, injectors, pipes, etc., raised torque by ~480ft-lb for ~$5,000 (the article says; parts-only number I assume). That works out to about $10 per ft.-lb, which is double the math of my earlier post. (Note also that the baseline stock turbo was shot, before pumping 50 benjamins under the hood.) Worth it? Hmmm...
This KC Turbo article on upgrading a 7.3L with new turbo, injectors, pipes, etc., raised torque by ~480ft-lb for ~$5,000 (the article says; parts-only number I assume). That works out to about $10 per ft.-lb, which is double the math of my earlier post. (Note also that the baseline stock turbo was shot, before pumping 50 benjamins under the hood.) Worth it? Hmmm...
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Lead Driver
Joined: May 2009
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From: Tobyhanma, PA
A good set of tunes with your hydra and some decent injectors will really wake the truck up. Might not even need a different turbo then, maybe just a billet wheel.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: North Texas
I have a Kc stage 1 drop in. 63/70 with a .84 housing and I love it. Great performance. If I were to start getting over 550 ish horsepower I’d switch to T4 definitely for the variety of turbo combos. the budget and the performance of the kc unit has been awesome for a year now and I don’t regret it. If I had the budget for it before I would’ve loved the T4 route not gonna lie
Is your truck a manual or auto? I have a ZF and the 1.0, really dig it for off boost with the stock turbine.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: Fowler Colorado
mine is a manual. They also had a 1.0 housing but I decided to go with the .84 for quicker spooling it’s amazing
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
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From: North Texas
Ah, I was trying to ask the other chap about his KC setup. Khan and I have been discussing these for a while too. Since I have boost drop between shifts, that is why I outfitted my F350 with that 1.0 turbine.
Basically mine will come back online quicker with the tighter turbine between shifts. My boost threshold is around 1300rpm as I recall. Not VGT common rail, but works well.
Basically mine will come back online quicker with the tighter turbine between shifts. My boost threshold is around 1300rpm as I recall. Not VGT common rail, but works well.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 949
Likes: 109
From: Fowler Colorado
Ah, I was trying to ask the other chap about his KC setup. Khan and I have been discussing these for a while too. Since I have boost drop between shifts, that is why I outfitted my F350 with that 1.0 turbine.
Basically mine will come back online quicker with the tighter turbine between shifts. My boost threshold is around 1300rpm as I recall. Not VGT common rail, but works well.
Basically mine will come back online quicker with the tighter turbine between shifts. My boost threshold is around 1300rpm as I recall. Not VGT common rail, but works well.
i love it. I can normally hold 8-10 psi between shifts if I want
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