T4 turbo setup
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,350
Likes: 5,945
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
I’ll shop around to see about the tunes then, especially AA. Definitely gonna check for leaks, on the drive to work I realized it’s been more than 2 years, going on 3, since I had the new tunes and injectors installed and checked for leaks at that time. Probably wouldn’t hurt to throw on a new set of boots everywhere too, pretty sure like everything else Ive messed with on it the parts are all stock unless I’ve changed them. The one part driving empty I did remember I don’t care for how it handles is one merge for the interstate close to home where it shifts into OD but I can’t get the speed up with the S curve so it seems bogged down. As a side question, is it possible the tune for my trans isn’t allowing enough pressure for the clutches to hold well enough so while I have the boost and power it doesn’t transfer to the wheels properly? And adds more heat to the trans? For all I know everything could be performing just fine but I’m expecting it to handle differently. Used to other, larger vehicles both riding and driving and no one that I’m close with has a 7.3, yet alone one modified.
A part of why I do limit cruising speed to about 65 is an attempt to keep decent mileage but after some reading maybe I should speed up a bit. The other part is it’s just gets loud above 2k, especially lately for some reason. I no longer have factory battery trays, or even stock sized batteries anymore so it would take more work to make one of the”quieter intakes” work it seems. and since I missed it, I’m running a 6637 filter and 4” I take the whole way. I think I’ve got the normal filter right now but have the blue one sitting waiting for the next time I service the truck, so within a couple hundred miles at most right now.
A part of why I do limit cruising speed to about 65 is an attempt to keep decent mileage but after some reading maybe I should speed up a bit. The other part is it’s just gets loud above 2k, especially lately for some reason. I no longer have factory battery trays, or even stock sized batteries anymore so it would take more work to make one of the”quieter intakes” work it seems. and since I missed it, I’m running a 6637 filter and 4” I take the whole way. I think I’ve got the normal filter right now but have the blue one sitting waiting for the next time I service the truck, so within a couple hundred miles at most right now.
So, it entirely possible you have an exhaust drive pressure leak or a boost leak somewhere among 6 boots, 12 clamps and 2 plenums. RacinJasonWV had a leak on his passenger side manifold that was not discovered until his SXE was underperforming. He ended up going from a 364.5 to a 363, but the manifold leak was doing him no favors.
The TC lockup thought posed by The Finlander is a good thought too. I don't know Jack or $h|t about the 4R100, so I will not speak out of turn about the specifics on it.
If I were you, I would pick the intake, boost and exhaust systems apart looking at every joint, clamp, boot and pressure test where you can. This only costs a few dollars in supplies and a bit of time. Far cheaper and easier on your back than swapping any hardware out. If you find nothing and still want to change out the KC38R, decide on a new 2nd generation KC turbo or a T4 system.
For anyone following along now or in the future, FTE'r "Peixinho" is Charlie, the owner of KC Turbos.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,854
Likes: 2,332
From: WV
A tuner can change transmission line pressure, shift points, shift quality, and torque converter lockup point. But if an automatic transmission “slips” then it is done. Slipping clutches in an auto trans will burn up quickly. So you haven’t been driving around with it partially engaged.
However, as our Finnish friend mentioned, the torque converter has a lock up clutch inside. This basically changes the normal fluid coupling into a mechanical coupling. Until you are in lockup the converter uses one fan to turn another fan. Picture two fans pointed at each other, one is powered on, the other is turning as a result. “Converter lockup” will make the connection mechanical, similar to when a standard clutch is engaged.
So all that said to say this, the fluid coupling could possibly make it feel like it was slipping if converter lockup isn’t happening when it should.
Do you have a way to monitor the PCM like the guys who use forscan? Simply watching the monitor for TC slip or comparing engine speed to turbine speed will tell you when it is locked up. I use a CTS monitor which doesn’t have as many monitoring options but I am able to see the PCM commanded shift status which includes lockup status.
You mentioned buying new boots and that’s not a bad idea. The CSD T4 kit I installed reused the boots so it wouldn’t be money wasted.
First of all though you could do a boost leak check by making a cheap detector. This will attach to the turbo inlet AFTER the CCV port.
However, as our Finnish friend mentioned, the torque converter has a lock up clutch inside. This basically changes the normal fluid coupling into a mechanical coupling. Until you are in lockup the converter uses one fan to turn another fan. Picture two fans pointed at each other, one is powered on, the other is turning as a result. “Converter lockup” will make the connection mechanical, similar to when a standard clutch is engaged.
So all that said to say this, the fluid coupling could possibly make it feel like it was slipping if converter lockup isn’t happening when it should.
Do you have a way to monitor the PCM like the guys who use forscan? Simply watching the monitor for TC slip or comparing engine speed to turbine speed will tell you when it is locked up. I use a CTS monitor which doesn’t have as many monitoring options but I am able to see the PCM commanded shift status which includes lockup status.
You mentioned buying new boots and that’s not a bad idea. The CSD T4 kit I installed reused the boots so it wouldn’t be money wasted.
First of all though you could do a boost leak check by making a cheap detector. This will attach to the turbo inlet AFTER the CCV port.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 72
From: Springfield
Another bit I forgot to include is I’ve got the riff Raff billet intake plenums so hopefully not leaking there. Ive got the intake cap with inflator valve somewhere on my tool box I’ll grab when I service the truck soon to check for those leaks. I’ll have to ask for a friend to look so I can check for exhaust leaks like Charlie recommended previously. I had Brian check the trans 2 years after I had it installed and he said everything was in perfect shape then, I ask about the temp portion is I currently read the temp through the OBD2 port and even empty I can see 170 during the summer. I assumed line pressure would handle how it holds or feels like it holds but don’t have a great understanding, I did take a couple auto trans classes in college but didn’t get to mess with the 4r100 since it was a HD trans compared to the rest of our stuff. The only time I know the TC locks up is when it shifts to OD, haven’t noticed it any other time.
I have forscan but use my laptop so would I still be able to drive and log data with it or does it have to have the WIFI signal?
I have forscan but use my laptop so would I still be able to drive and log data with it or does it have to have the WIFI signal?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,854
Likes: 2,332
From: WV
The main reason I mentioned monitoring the TC lockup was just to see if this was your perception of slipping. If you’re currently reading Trans temp through OBD2 then you should be able the also get the shift status to display. Not sure what monitor you are using but it is an option on my edge CTS.
TC LU isn’t exclusive to 4th gear. Mine is regularly locked in 3rd as well and I believe sometimes I also see it in 2nd.
170* isn’t hot. A 6.0 trans cooler is a great mod BTW.
TC LU isn’t exclusive to 4th gear. Mine is regularly locked in 3rd as well and I believe sometimes I also see it in 2nd.
170* isn’t hot. A 6.0 trans cooler is a great mod BTW.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 72
From: Springfield
Ive got an older edge tuner that I use as a set of gauges, I dont remember seeing anything for the t/c but I was just looking for the 4 I use. I’ll double check for a pid before I leave for work this afternoon. I know the t/c doesn’t lock until a certain trans temp so that’s what I was using as a baseline to not seeing/feeling it lock in any other gear than OD wether it was warm enough or not
170 isn’t hot but it seems atleast 10-20 higher than what I’ve seen everyone else reporting and I’ve got the smaller of the 2 6.0 coolers installed and have since getting the BTS unit. I had several times in 3rd where I got over 180 when I had OD locked out driving around town.
170 isn’t hot but it seems atleast 10-20 higher than what I’ve seen everyone else reporting and I’ve got the smaller of the 2 6.0 coolers installed and have since getting the BTS unit. I had several times in 3rd where I got over 180 when I had OD locked out driving around town.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,800
Likes: 31
From: OKC, OK
Ive got an older edge tuner that I use as a set of gauges, I dont remember seeing anything for the t/c but I was just looking for the 4 I use. I’ll double check for a pid before I leave for work this afternoon. I know the t/c doesn’t lock until a certain trans temp so that’s what I was using as a baseline to not seeing/feeling it lock in any other gear than OD wether it was warm enough or not
170 isn’t hot but it seems atleast 10-20 higher than what I’ve seen everyone else reporting and I’ve got the smaller of the 2 6.0 coolers installed and have since getting the BTS unit. I had several times in 3rd where I got over 180 when I had OD locked out driving around town.
170 isn’t hot but it seems atleast 10-20 higher than what I’ve seen everyone else reporting and I’ve got the smaller of the 2 6.0 coolers installed and have since getting the BTS unit. I had several times in 3rd where I got over 180 when I had OD locked out driving around town.
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Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 72
From: Springfield
Good to hear for reassurance on the temps. I checked my edge unit, it’s an evolution 2 and does not have anything for the trans other than fluid temp. I’m gonna try to go for a drive tomorrow with the laptop to see if I can log some data and will report back here with any questions.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 72
From: Springfield
I think I selected the correct pids when i took the truck for a drive to see T/C slippage. Without looking back to watch it all again i did see near zero in 3rd at times and 4th and smaller numbers the closer it got to a gear shift. I stepped on it a couple times going about 25-30 and did see up to 8xx. I also noticed around 6.2 psi exhaust back pressure with boost anywhere from 2-8 psi. Never saw my fuel pressure or HPOP pressure drop. I would have like to watch the laptop when i was merging on the interstate in the twisty S curve but it slid off my center console.
I need to look through all the options of stuff to watch and go for a good drive again, looked like i had space for 24 different readings. Guess I’ll really be able to tell how the truck is running and if something is actually off, not just assuming its all fine.
I need to look through all the options of stuff to watch and go for a good drive again, looked like i had space for 24 different readings. Guess I’ll really be able to tell how the truck is running and if something is actually off, not just assuming its all fine.
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 394
Likes: 575
Parts leak... new and old. I would not throw parts at it or assume that new parts don't leak. Also tight clamps don't meant it is not leaking. Just because you don't "see soot" on the firewall does not mean you don't have exhaust leaks. I would do an actual boost/exhaust leak test. Check out this link... lots of good videos and info about boost/exhaust leaks. A boost leak detector is a great investment and easy to make... but we do have them for sale if you don't want to make one yourself.
https://kcturbos.com/pages/instructions
As others have said... if your trans was slipping for any extended period of time then it would be DONE! But your converter might not be locked. Monitoring it is a good idea but you can also tell by just "feathering the throttle". If you feather the throttle and let off over and over again you will be able to tell if the converter is locked. If RPMs go up ONLY with speed then the converter is locked. If rpms jump up and down 200-300rpms without any change in speed then the converter is locked.
With the converter locked the truck will make more boost, put more power to the ground, get better MPG, tow better, etc... BUT will be doggy down low, more smokey down low, and would obvious stall if you ever had the converter locked at a dead stop. Most tunes lock the converter in 3rd... which mean 1-2 will always have the converter unlocked. So when "testing for max boost" make sure you hold WOT into 3rd with the converter locked.
https://kcturbos.com/pages/instructions
As others have said... if your trans was slipping for any extended period of time then it would be DONE! But your converter might not be locked. Monitoring it is a good idea but you can also tell by just "feathering the throttle". If you feather the throttle and let off over and over again you will be able to tell if the converter is locked. If RPMs go up ONLY with speed then the converter is locked. If rpms jump up and down 200-300rpms without any change in speed then the converter is locked.
With the converter locked the truck will make more boost, put more power to the ground, get better MPG, tow better, etc... BUT will be doggy down low, more smokey down low, and would obvious stall if you ever had the converter locked at a dead stop. Most tunes lock the converter in 3rd... which mean 1-2 will always have the converter unlocked. So when "testing for max boost" make sure you hold WOT into 3rd with the converter locked.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 72
From: Springfield
Guess I’ll take some time some morning when the weather isn’t too cold out to do a boost leak test. Ive got a tester I made at one point. I’ll watch the other videos on KCs website after dinner so I know what I’m doing.
I do know I’ve had times where the rpms are fairly high for the truck not going as fast. Guess I need to get an extension cord for the usb and do some data logging with various driving conditions. At minimum it probably would be a good idea to replace all the boots and clamps in the system correct? Ive replaced the plenum boots and clamps but none of the rest since I’ve owned it and those that are labeled still say Ford.
I do know I’ve had times where the rpms are fairly high for the truck not going as fast. Guess I need to get an extension cord for the usb and do some data logging with various driving conditions. At minimum it probably would be a good idea to replace all the boots and clamps in the system correct? Ive replaced the plenum boots and clamps but none of the rest since I’ve owned it and those that are labeled still say Ford.
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jan 2010
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If rpms are up super high, low boost, and super smokey... you could have too loose of a converter, too much power for that stall of converter, need tuning adjustments, etc.
Here is the only video example I have. This is a 6.0 but should give you and idea of what I am talking about. Watch it a couple of times, paying attention to each seperate video. After he launches and you will notice rpms fly up and hang out at about 4000, only makes 39psi of boost, super smokey, and kinda sounds like the transmission isn't doing anything.... UNTIL... 36 seconds into the video you will notice rpms drop to 3200, boost spikes up past 50lbs, and the smoke goes away. That is where the converter finally locked.
Here is the only video example I have. This is a 6.0 but should give you and idea of what I am talking about. Watch it a couple of times, paying attention to each seperate video. After he launches and you will notice rpms fly up and hang out at about 4000, only makes 39psi of boost, super smokey, and kinda sounds like the transmission isn't doing anything.... UNTIL... 36 seconds into the video you will notice rpms drop to 3200, boost spikes up past 50lbs, and the smoke goes away. That is where the converter finally locked.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 72
From: Springfield
Till I can recreate the throttle to engine speed I won’t know what all was going on. After messing around with it driving today I definitely saw where from 1700-1900 it built some boost but didn’t really pull super hard but past that it pulled and built boost great for the amount of throttle I was using. Obviously gonna check over all the connections and see if I’ve got a leak elsewhere but I’m also fighting finding a fluid leak somewhere.