over charging alternator
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 310
Likes: 25
From: Eagan, MN
over charging alternator
Because I have a 1953 f350, I usually follow that group. But I also have a 2016 f150 with a 5.0 motor that I am looking for some help on. Charging System Service Now is the message that comes up on the dash screen. I have taken it to a couple shops and they both said the alternator is overcharging. Yesterday they put on a new alternator and that one shows it is overcharging. The battery tests good as well as the starter. I have about 34,000 miles on the pickup, it starts great and runs great. Any suggestions? Thanks,
Grant
Grant
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
First thing you need to know is the engine computer controls the alternator.
This is not the old system any longer of just an alternator and battery.
It could be any one of the following;
A. The battery needs replacement if it was overcharged too long and caused loss of life, boiled out of water etc. Battery charging is by 'Pulsing' not the old way of regulator taper control..
B. The system needs to be reset when a battery is replaced.
C. Harness issues.
You need to see if codes are set for the charge system, correct the fault and possibly have the system reset because the computer keeps track of it as it does not auto reset by itself.
Bottom line the problem has not been addressed correctly.
Your dealing with a Battery management system now, not the old time charge systems.
Good luck.
This is not the old system any longer of just an alternator and battery.
It could be any one of the following;
A. The battery needs replacement if it was overcharged too long and caused loss of life, boiled out of water etc. Battery charging is by 'Pulsing' not the old way of regulator taper control..
B. The system needs to be reset when a battery is replaced.
C. Harness issues.
You need to see if codes are set for the charge system, correct the fault and possibly have the system reset because the computer keeps track of it as it does not auto reset by itself.
Bottom line the problem has not been addressed correctly.
Your dealing with a Battery management system now, not the old time charge systems.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 310
Likes: 25
From: Eagan, MN
Thanks for your suggestions. One of the shops I brought it to was an independent shop and the other was a Ford dealership, both saying the same thing, but I'm not convinced it's the alternator rather than the computer, harness, or something else either. That's partly why I posted it here. Last time I replaced an alternator I needed a 9/19" wrench, a pry bar and about $70.00. Now the Ford dealership estimate was over $1,000. Times have changed. I sure don't want to spend that amount of money and still have the same issue. Any more suggestions? Thanks,
Grant
Grant
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,465
Likes: 725
From: Calgary Canada
would it be possible to have a chat with the service manager at the dealership? Could be worth paying an hour of shop time for diagnostics if they'll warranty the repair. Agree you don't want to be out a thousand dollars and still have the issue.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
One of the basics in troubleshooting, even in primitive systems but especially sophisticated electronics is determining whether there actually is a fault or, whether it is a simply a bogus indication of a fault. It says it's overcharging. Well OK, maybe. Maybe even probably. But.
What voltages are you actually seeing at the battery posts? Idle, and under load.
What voltages are you actually seeing at the battery posts? Idle, and under load.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,740
Likes: 37
From: Central NYS
Just because it says FORD on the dealership doesn’t mean they’d their best guy on it. :-(
Ditto on the charge voltage.
And what does the scan tool say the SOC is?
And the battery’s days in service?
Ditto on the charge voltage.
And what does the scan tool say the SOC is?
And the battery’s days in service?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
You can use a simple plugin monitor to observe the state of charging as a beginning.
Habor Freight has one that will offer that function.
On the left side is three LEDs Green , Orange and Red.
The red will light or flashing when the computer is addressing the Alternator to charge the battery.
Normally is should not be on very long after starting the engine to recover the battery charge.
The Green and Orange will be on full time as normal unless there is a problem with the Alternator.
.
On the right side are three of the same colors for the state of charge of the battery.
.
A simple device to get at least an idea of what situation you have.
Otherwise a tech who is competent has to be engaged.
.
And yes, don't ask the cost of an Alternator or even a Starter on these new systems.
Sorry, this is where we all are, now.
Like electric lights, we can't go back to Kerosene Lamps because even they cost more to use now..
Good luck.
Habor Freight has one that will offer that function.
On the left side is three LEDs Green , Orange and Red.
The red will light or flashing when the computer is addressing the Alternator to charge the battery.
Normally is should not be on very long after starting the engine to recover the battery charge.
The Green and Orange will be on full time as normal unless there is a problem with the Alternator.
.
On the right side are three of the same colors for the state of charge of the battery.
.
A simple device to get at least an idea of what situation you have.
Otherwise a tech who is competent has to be engaged.
.
And yes, don't ask the cost of an Alternator or even a Starter on these new systems.
Sorry, this is where we all are, now.
Like electric lights, we can't go back to Kerosene Lamps because even they cost more to use now..
Good luck.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
Because I have a 1953 f350, I usually follow that group. But I also have a 2016 f150 with a 5.0 motor that I am looking for some help on. Charging System Service Now is the message that comes up on the dash screen. I have taken it to a couple shops and they both said the alternator is overcharging. Yesterday they put on a new alternator and that one shows it is overcharging. The battery tests good as well as the starter. I have about 34,000 miles on the pickup, it starts great and runs great. Any suggestions? Thanks,
Grant
Grant
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 310
Likes: 25
From: Eagan, MN
One of my added challenges is that I am about 1400 miles from home. We spend a couple of months in Texas to get away from Minnesota winters. This also means no tools or garage. I have a time scheduled at a Ford dealer on Monday so they can take a better look at the problem. I asked them not to simply replace the alternator and see if that works. Rather, find the cause of the message on the dash and figure out what is needed. They agreed that would be a good approach.
Grant
Grant
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 243
From: GA
I don’t understand what the Wi-Fi router and it’s software updates has to do with the OP’s problem.
Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 310
Likes: 25
From: Eagan, MN
The saga continues. We spent over 7 hours at the Ford dealership today so they could diagnose the problem. So far they are guessing the problem is in the wiring harness and they hope to do a wiring overlay rather than replace the entire harness. I'm still not sure anything is actually wrong other that the message coming up on the screen.
Grant
Grant
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
Yet another dealership failure. Did they read and understand the 6 pages in the electrical portion of the FSM that tells them to start with BMS or the hall effect sensor? I have seen way to many trucks get parts thrown at them for the sensor alone. That sensor is a failure prone item. Also unless the battery has been successfully tested don't rule it out. The battery test is a 3 hour charge, load test, charge and re-test on a flooded battery and even more involved on AGM. The BMS will charge high if the battery isn't working right or if the BMS is getting a false temperature reading.