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I found and watched that same video this morning after making my last post. Very good content! It answered my questions. The electric motor used on the 6.7 is more efficient/powerful/rpm's, etc. The field coils are what appears to be parallel, but that does not create a 24 volt situation. What it does is provide more stable/equal voltage to both coils and most likely more voltage to the brushes. You are going to have voltage drop thru the field coils, so in a series situation the second coil receives less voltage than the first in the string, and even less voltage to the brushes. With the way the newer started is constructed, the coils should in theory see equal voltage, have less total voltage drop and supply more voltage to the brushes. In electric motors, more than anything else, voltage is going to determine the RPMs the motor turns, and at the end of the day the 6.7 starter turns more RPMs with the same load (when modified to fit the 7.3), leading me to think the design change allows less voltage drop before the brushes.
In smaller applications that is why lots of manufacturers are going to permanent magnet starters. You are not sucking up valuable current with the field coils, so all voltage goes directly to making things spin. I definitely like the idea of using the 6.7 starter. If nothing else, you could purchase one from your choice of parts suppliers, make the modification and run! It is an item that should be pretty much available most places you would want to go, which for our poor old 7.3's may be a diminishing quality. Even if not looking to upgrade it is great information to have in the file in case you found yourself stranded. The likelihood of finding a starter for any Ford diesel pickup produced in the last 25 years is pretty good!
A little thought on that. The oem Visteon for the 2 hole version for the 7.3L looks the same as the 6.0L, 6.4L, and 6.7L starters except for the nose cone. So if you buy one from a parts store, you could be getting any one of aforementioned. In addition, I would rather have an oem FoMoCo unit, as they will outlast something rebuilt by the parts stores. Heck, for the price I paid, I couldn't buy one of the rebuilt starters from a parts store or rebuilder for the money I paid for two low mileage oem FoMoCo units!
Why does the original 7.3L starter need to have the 2 bolt mounting surface? Why does the 7.3L 3 bolt mounting surface not work/fit?
If nose cones are being swapped between the two so that the 7.3L nose is being installed on the 6.7L starter body, why is the bolt hole count important?
Disclaimer: I have not watched the video linked above.
Why does the original 7.3L starter need to have the 2 bolt mounting surface? Why does the 7.3L 3 bolt mounting surface not work/fit?
If nose cones are being swapped between the two so that the 7.3L nose is being installed on the 6.7L starter body, why is the bolt hole count important?
Disclaimer: I have not watched the video linked above.
I thought the same thing and knew the Excursion had the Mitsubishi 3 hole starter. The nose cone on the Mitsubishi unit is totally different being it is much deeper to house the planetary gear setup, versus the offset gear. Then I thought, well, okay, why will the 3 hole 6.7L...or any of the others for that matter...not bolt up to the 7.3L. If you look at the mounting ears, they are at different depths, so that won't work either...
I thought the same thing and knew the Excursion had the Mitsubishi 3 hole starter. The nose cone on the Mitsubishi unit is totally different being it is much deeper to house the planetary gear setup, versus the offset gear. Then I thought, well, okay, why will the 3 hole 6.7L...or any of the others for that matter...not bolt up to the 7.3L. If you look at the mounting ears, they are at different depths, so that won't work either...
If you are talking about the mounting ears that the bolt goes through and into the transmission case, a thicker surface can be overcome by slightly longer bolts. This is what I did when installing the Denso. I "think" I went from the OEM 35mm bolt to a 45mm bolt in order to get much more bite from the bolt into the transmission case.
I was asking about why the original 7.3L starter needs to be 2 hole. There are 3 hole 7.3L starters out there, so why would the nose cone from a 3 hole 7.3L starter have a different application than a 2 hole 7.3L starter. If the nose cone is being removed from the 6.7L starter and the nose cone from the 7.3L starter is being installed, why does the 7.3L starter nose cone need to be 2 hole?
Does the 3 hole 7.3L nose cone have a slightly different interior to it that does not allow for it to be mounted onto the 6.7L starter? Is there something else that the 3 hole 7.3L nose cone has on it or it is part of that does not allow it to work?
This option would increase the parts available for a conversion immensely, if it works.
EDIT: AKCooper9 just called me as it was easier to explain on the phone than to try and type it out.
Basically, the construction of the 7.3L starter in the 2 hole and 3 hole variety is different. Different in a way that the 7.3L starter must be a 2 hole starter in order to swap the nose cone onto the 6.7L starter body. The 7.3L starter with the 3 holes will not physically work on the 6.7L starter body.
If you are talking about the mounting ears that the bolt goes through and into the transmission case, a thicker surface can be overcome by slightly longer bolts. This is what I did when installing the Denso. I "think" I went from the OEM 35mm bolt to a 45mm bolt in order to get much more bite from the bolt into the transmission case.
I was asking about why the original 7.3L starter needs to be 2 hole. There are 3 hole 7.3L starters out there, so why would the nose cone from a 3 hole 7.3L starter have a different application than a 2 hole 7.3L starter. If the nose cone is being removed from the 6.7L starter and the nose cone from the 7.3L starter is being installed, why does the 7.3L starter nose cone need to be 2 hole?
Does the 3 hole 7.3L nose cone have a slightly different interior to it that does not allow for it to be mounted onto the 6.7L starter? Is there something else that the 3 hole 7.3L nose cone has on it or it is part of that does not allow it to work?
This option would increase the parts available for a conversion immensely, if it works.
EDIT: AKCooper9 just called me as it was easier to explain on the phone than to try and type it out.
Basically, the construction of the 7.3L starter in the 2 hole and 3 hole variety is different. Different in a way that the 7.3L starter must be a 2 hole starter in order to swap the nose cone onto the 6.7L starter body. The 7.3L starter with the 3 holes will not physically work on the 6.7L starter body.
Here is the 7.3L 3 hole in the first pic you can see me pointing to where the nose cone and/or front half really, ends. The second picture shows the 6.7L nose cone relative to the huge depth difference. You can also see the 6.7L nose cone compared to the snout of the 3 hole 7.3L relative to how much further it sticks out...which is why the 6.0L, 6.4L, 6.7L 3 hole nose cone won't work on the 7.3L...
Here is the 7.3L 3 hole in the first pic you can see me pointing to where the nose cone and/or front half really, ends. The second picture shows the 6.7L nose cone relative to the huge depth difference. You can also see the 6.7L nose cone compared to the snout of the 3 hole 7.3L relative to how much further it sticks out...which is why the 6.0L, 6.4L, 6.7L 3 hole nose cone won't work on the 7.3L...
Got it! Thank you for going the extra mile to explain it even further than what AKCooper9 said to me on the phone.
Between his comment, your comment and images I have an understanding of how the process goes and why it needs to be that way.
Going to add this to the todo list. First got to get my t4/sxe setup! Will post on that setup later
@My1st7.3 , I tried but can’t send you a PM since you’re a new member. I wanted to share some links for the T4 setup in case you haven’t ran across them yet.
@My1st7.3 , I tried but can’t send you a PM since you’re a new member. I wanted to share some links for the T4 setup in case you haven’t ran across them yet.
Thank you! anything is helpful but I'm fortunate enough to have Akcooper9 on speed dial and happens to be a real close friend. Let's just say he spent my money on this little project lol.. looking forward to posting some pics on all the mods
Thank you! anything is helpful but I'm fortunate enough to have Akcooper9 on speed dial and happens to be a real close friend. Let's just say he spent my money on this little project lol.. looking forward to posting some pics on all the mods
He is good at doing that...
AKCooper9 and his family were in my neck of the woods a while back and we had the chance to meet them. Good people and you are lucky to have someone like that close to you. Keep us updated and we look forward to your journey.
If you have the desire, create your own thread for your build. Most of us won't give you a hard time about starting a new thread detailing something that has already been done to these 20 year old trucks. We enjoy learning about new things, even when the task or job is reaching back 2 decades.
Just don't start another oil thread... They are catching on worse than THE VID right now...
AKCooper9 and his family were in my neck of the woods a while back and we had the chance to meet them. Good people and you are lucky to have someone like that close to you. Keep us updated and we look forward to your journey.
If you have the desire, create your own thread for your build. Most of us won't give you a hard time about starting a new thread detailing something that has already been done to these 20 year old trucks. We enjoy learning about new things, even when the task or job is reaching back 2 decades.
Just don't start another oil thread... They are catching on worse than THE VID right now...
yes sir very fortunate to have friends like them. I will definitely post any mods Akcooper9 does to my truck.
This thread has had a few replies that I have yet to read but I thought this photo may help...
Left is my old Alliant Power 3 bolt starter. Right is my new 2 bolt Denso starter. I almost returned this sucker, but I gave it a try anyway. It fits just fine and cranks way faster than before. There were no mechanical fitment issues, but the main motor cable termination had to be bent 90° for everything to fit. Hopefully the photos of fit nose cones will help some people.
JeepGuy93 posted some pictures of his 7.3L OEM 3 bolt starter next to his Denso starter, and that gave me an idea.
Based on what AKCooper9 and bwguardian have told us above about the configuration differences between the 3 and 2 hole starter from the 7.3L, it can be somewhat difficult to envision them without seeing them. So, a while back I had taken a picture of my 3 hole 7.3L starter next to my new Denso and thought I would "expertly" photoshop it between the image that AKCooper9 posted. I did this in hopes that a picture is worth a thousand words and someone such as myself that focuses on the details and pays attention to details, can see the difference between the two OEM starters and why only the 2 hole 7.3L starter will work with the 6.7L starter body.
Expertly photoshoped image below of the 2 hole 7.3L starter, 3 hole 7.3L starter and 6.7L starter. You can clearly see the middle starter has the bendix in line with the main body, where the left and right starters are offset a bit.
I was under my truck today (2003) to determine if I had a 2 or 3 bolt starter. Well, I have a 2 bolt starter but it appears I can install a 3 bolt starter cause there is a un-used thread there. Does this make sense?
I was under my truck today (2003) to determine if I had a 2 or 3 bolt starter. Well, I have a 2 bolt starter but it appears I can install a 3 bolt starter cause there is a un-used thread there. Does this make sense?
