Electrical Problem / relay clicking
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,093
Likes: 4,703
From: Henderson, NV
https://www.fordification.com/tech/vin_find.htm
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,345
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Like Leonard, I am confused about what is going on and I apologize for asking the same questions more than once, just worded differently.
I don't know when for sure the VSM took the place of the GEM, but I "think" it was in late 2001 for the 2002 model year. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should only have the single fuse panel under the dash, not the secondary under the hood as well. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should have a VSM, not a GEM.
Not a big deal, if everything was swapped over correctly. I emphasize on the "everything" because when going from the different configurations and years, there are slight variations in the harnesses and components that could lead you to chasing gremlins.
Now that we have narrowed down that you have a GEM and 2 fuse boxes as an earlier model should have, we need to figure out some other things that led you to replace/rebuild the fuse box and tear into the GEM.
- In post #12 you said "same fuse box". - You tore into the fuse box due to rain water damage after you suspected so when accessories stopped working? Normally those accessory functions failing or working intermittently can be attributed to a GEM failing or being faulty, but a fuse box is more than capable of being damaged as well.
- Glow plug system bypassed by manual ground switch. Got it and understood.
- When reading about the "battery save mode" what were you reading the function of this mode was? Was it in an effort to kill power to the batteries via a switch or to charge the batteries while the engine is running? Can you give us more details please sir.
- You opened up the GEM, good information to have and not an uncommon thing to do when it is suspected bad or corroded. When cutting the small trace, do you suspect any other damage by leaning on an resistor, capacitor or pin? There is an entire section for the GEM in the 7.3L PSD Tech Folder if you have not seen it already.
- Prior to removing the fuse box and GEM, you had a bunch of DTC's related to the GEM, but now you do not, is that correct?
- These are the original trouble symptoms beside the GEM DTC's correct? "No cruise control, no AC, intermittent blower motor for the heater, constant door ajar light and alarm, no ground from PCM to the glow plug relay".
Once we get the details ironed out, we can find the common components to the issues you are experiencing and point you in a direction to success. Stick with us sir and keep talking, that is how we who are not able to see the issues in person are able to help you resolve them.
I don't know when for sure the VSM took the place of the GEM, but I "think" it was in late 2001 for the 2002 model year. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should only have the single fuse panel under the dash, not the secondary under the hood as well. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should have a VSM, not a GEM.
Not a big deal, if everything was swapped over correctly. I emphasize on the "everything" because when going from the different configurations and years, there are slight variations in the harnesses and components that could lead you to chasing gremlins.
Now that we have narrowed down that you have a GEM and 2 fuse boxes as an earlier model should have, we need to figure out some other things that led you to replace/rebuild the fuse box and tear into the GEM.
- In post #12 you said "same fuse box". - You tore into the fuse box due to rain water damage after you suspected so when accessories stopped working? Normally those accessory functions failing or working intermittently can be attributed to a GEM failing or being faulty, but a fuse box is more than capable of being damaged as well.
- Glow plug system bypassed by manual ground switch. Got it and understood.
- When reading about the "battery save mode" what were you reading the function of this mode was? Was it in an effort to kill power to the batteries via a switch or to charge the batteries while the engine is running? Can you give us more details please sir.
- You opened up the GEM, good information to have and not an uncommon thing to do when it is suspected bad or corroded. When cutting the small trace, do you suspect any other damage by leaning on an resistor, capacitor or pin? There is an entire section for the GEM in the 7.3L PSD Tech Folder if you have not seen it already.
- Prior to removing the fuse box and GEM, you had a bunch of DTC's related to the GEM, but now you do not, is that correct?
- These are the original trouble symptoms beside the GEM DTC's correct? "No cruise control, no AC, intermittent blower motor for the heater, constant door ajar light and alarm, no ground from PCM to the glow plug relay".
Once we get the details ironed out, we can find the common components to the issues you are experiencing and point you in a direction to success. Stick with us sir and keep talking, that is how we who are not able to see the issues in person are able to help you resolve them.
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 220
Likes: 34
From: Orcas Island
"- When reading about the "battery save mode" what were you reading the function of this mode was? Was it in an effort to kill power to the batteries via a switch or to charge the batteries while the engine is running? Can you give us more details please sir."
Early on, I had excessive battery drain. I don't recall the exact numbers, but was in my very first post here. I went out to start it after it sat for a few days and the batteries were about dead. After charging and testing the batteries, I did a drain test and traced it to the fusible link off the start solenoid. I also discovered at that time the blower motor sometimes stayed on when the key was turned off, and on low speed I didn't hear it still running. I know by experience that if my 2006 Taurus sits around for 2 weeks without being driven the battery goes dead, from the normal drain of stereo memory, and whatever electronics draw from the battery in the off position, clock, etc.
" You opened up the GEM, good information to have and not an uncommon thing to do when it is suspected bad or corroded. When cutting the small trace, do you suspect any other damage by leaning on an resistor, capacitor or pin? There is an entire section for the GEM in the 7.3L PSD Tech Folder if you have not seen it already."
my GEM looks very clean inside, and the side I cut was the bottom of the board, with it resting in it's case, I didn't use much down pressure, so i don't think I could have cracked the board, which I suspect is a multilayer board with surface mounted components..
"Prior to removing the fuse box and GEM, you had a bunch of DTC's related to the GEM, but now you do not, is that correct?"
Yes, I did have 3 dtc for the PCM, and 3 for the airbag system, nothing that pointed at the GEM as a possible cause in the notes.
" These are the original trouble symptoms beside the GEM DTC's correct? "No cruise control, no AC, intermittent blower motor for the heater, constant door ajar light and alarm, no ground from PCM to the glow plug relay"."
That is correct, All of this new electrical failure happened so suddenly that I keep thinking I unplugged something while wrestling around under the dash, or failed to connect up a ground wire. I have a haunting image in my mind of a badly corroded ring terminal on a wire, that was dangling where I removed the parking brake.I looked for it when I was soaking my connectors in the salt/vinegar and soda water rinse, but all I found was the spade terminal to the park brake switch. I looked for it again during the reassembly process, but eventually I convinced myself it was the parking brake wire. Now it haunts me, because an open ground can create a lot of havoc.
Early on, I had excessive battery drain. I don't recall the exact numbers, but was in my very first post here. I went out to start it after it sat for a few days and the batteries were about dead. After charging and testing the batteries, I did a drain test and traced it to the fusible link off the start solenoid. I also discovered at that time the blower motor sometimes stayed on when the key was turned off, and on low speed I didn't hear it still running. I know by experience that if my 2006 Taurus sits around for 2 weeks without being driven the battery goes dead, from the normal drain of stereo memory, and whatever electronics draw from the battery in the off position, clock, etc.
" You opened up the GEM, good information to have and not an uncommon thing to do when it is suspected bad or corroded. When cutting the small trace, do you suspect any other damage by leaning on an resistor, capacitor or pin? There is an entire section for the GEM in the 7.3L PSD Tech Folder if you have not seen it already."
my GEM looks very clean inside, and the side I cut was the bottom of the board, with it resting in it's case, I didn't use much down pressure, so i don't think I could have cracked the board, which I suspect is a multilayer board with surface mounted components..
"Prior to removing the fuse box and GEM, you had a bunch of DTC's related to the GEM, but now you do not, is that correct?"
Yes, I did have 3 dtc for the PCM, and 3 for the airbag system, nothing that pointed at the GEM as a possible cause in the notes.
" These are the original trouble symptoms beside the GEM DTC's correct? "No cruise control, no AC, intermittent blower motor for the heater, constant door ajar light and alarm, no ground from PCM to the glow plug relay"."
That is correct, All of this new electrical failure happened so suddenly that I keep thinking I unplugged something while wrestling around under the dash, or failed to connect up a ground wire. I have a haunting image in my mind of a badly corroded ring terminal on a wire, that was dangling where I removed the parking brake.I looked for it when I was soaking my connectors in the salt/vinegar and soda water rinse, but all I found was the spade terminal to the park brake switch. I looked for it again during the reassembly process, but eventually I convinced myself it was the parking brake wire. Now it haunts me, because an open ground can create a lot of havoc.
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 220
Likes: 34
From: Orcas Island
Do they still do this Leonard? the link said 1967-1972, and I think I may be newer than that. I searcher the top of my right frame rail for a vin, and found nothing in front of the cab. I didn't crawl under the cab yet to check there.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,093
Likes: 4,703
From: Henderson, NV
Hmmm, maybe not exactly at the location the article mentioned but I’m pretty sure they still stamp the frame with the VIN. These threads may help.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-location.html
https://www.thedieselstop.com/thread...ge=1&_k=dtlvu2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-location.html
https://www.thedieselstop.com/thread...ge=1&_k=dtlvu2
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 220
Likes: 34
From: Orcas Island
I followed a youtube video and removed my instrument cluster, I also removed the fasteners from the fuse block/GEM, and slid it as far toward the steering column as it will go. This offered me a better view of the area around the park brake and the PCM, but I do not see any ground wire there which I thought I had seen when removing all of this before. This also allowed me to ensure that all of the harness plugs were still firmly plugged into the instrument cluster, they were.
I think at this point I need a wiring diagram of that fuse block, so I can do continuity tests from each terminal to each fuse or relay socket. The tricky part of this is not knowing exactly what year this fuse block is from. I do remember seeing a sticker on it that may have numbers to help identify it.
OK, here I found a pic of that label on my phone, my fuse block is YC3T-14AO67-DC assembled in Mexico 5/15/2000 S-N 001294982. If I can find a wiring diagram of that I can make sure everything inside is correct.
I think at this point I need a wiring diagram of that fuse block, so I can do continuity tests from each terminal to each fuse or relay socket. The tricky part of this is not knowing exactly what year this fuse block is from. I do remember seeing a sticker on it that may have numbers to help identify it.
OK, here I found a pic of that label on my phone, my fuse block is YC3T-14AO67-DC assembled in Mexico 5/15/2000 S-N 001294982. If I can find a wiring diagram of that I can make sure everything inside is correct.
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From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Sir, this thread may be of help as well if you are verifying the VIN: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...lp-please.html
As for the wiring diagrams, we can help with that.
I am not as good with the FSM as I would like to be, but I will do what I can and hopefully another FTE'r can pick up the slack if I fall short on the required information and illustrations.
The fuse panel under the hood in the engine bay is referred to as "battery junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-021 of the FSM. The fuse panel under the dash is referred to as "central junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-030.
Sir, I know you were having some issues with getting your FSM to work after restarting, did you resolve those issues?
As for the wiring diagrams, we can help with that.
I am not as good with the FSM as I would like to be, but I will do what I can and hopefully another FTE'r can pick up the slack if I fall short on the required information and illustrations.
The fuse panel under the hood in the engine bay is referred to as "battery junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-021 of the FSM. The fuse panel under the dash is referred to as "central junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-030.
Sir, I know you were having some issues with getting your FSM to work after restarting, did you resolve those issues?
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 220
Likes: 34
From: Orcas Island
Like Leonard, I am confused about what is going on and I apologize for asking the same questions more than once, just worded differently.
I don't know when for sure the VSM took the place of the GEM, but I "think" it was in late 2001 for the 2002 model year. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should only have the single fuse panel under the dash, not the secondary under the hood as well. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should have a VSM, not a GEM.
Not a big deal, if everything was swapped over correctly. I emphasize on the "everything" because when going from the different configurations and years, there are slight variations in the harnesses and components that could lead you to chasing gremlins.
Now that we have narrowed down that you have a GEM and 2 fuse boxes as an earlier model should have, we need to figure out some other things that led you to replace/rebuild the fuse box and tear into the GEM.
- In post #12 you said "same fuse box". - You tore into the fuse box due to rain water damage after you suspected so when accessories stopped working? Normally those accessory functions failing or working intermittently can be attributed to a GEM failing or being faulty, but a fuse box is more than capable of being damaged as well.
- Glow plug system bypassed by manual ground switch. Got it and understood.
- When reading about the "battery save mode" what were you reading the function of this mode was? Was it in an effort to kill power to the batteries via a switch or to charge the batteries while the engine is running? Can you give us more details please sir.
- You opened up the GEM, good information to have and not an uncommon thing to do when it is suspected bad or corroded. When cutting the small trace, do you suspect any other damage by leaning on an resistor, capacitor or pin? There is an entire section for the GEM in the 7.3L PSD Tech Folder if you have not seen it already.
- Prior to removing the fuse box and GEM, you had a bunch of DTC's related to the GEM, but now you do not, is that correct?
- These are the original trouble symptoms beside the GEM DTC's correct? "No cruise control, no AC, intermittent blower motor for the heater, constant door ajar light and alarm, no ground from PCM to the glow plug relay".
Once we get the details ironed out, we can find the common components to the issues you are experiencing and point you in a direction to success. Stick with us sir and keep talking, that is how we who are not able to see the issues in person are able to help you resolve them.
I don't know when for sure the VSM took the place of the GEM, but I "think" it was in late 2001 for the 2002 model year. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should only have the single fuse panel under the dash, not the secondary under the hood as well. If you have a build date of 10/2002 on the door, you should have a VSM, not a GEM.
Not a big deal, if everything was swapped over correctly. I emphasize on the "everything" because when going from the different configurations and years, there are slight variations in the harnesses and components that could lead you to chasing gremlins.
Now that we have narrowed down that you have a GEM and 2 fuse boxes as an earlier model should have, we need to figure out some other things that led you to replace/rebuild the fuse box and tear into the GEM.
- In post #12 you said "same fuse box". - You tore into the fuse box due to rain water damage after you suspected so when accessories stopped working? Normally those accessory functions failing or working intermittently can be attributed to a GEM failing or being faulty, but a fuse box is more than capable of being damaged as well.
- Glow plug system bypassed by manual ground switch. Got it and understood.
- When reading about the "battery save mode" what were you reading the function of this mode was? Was it in an effort to kill power to the batteries via a switch or to charge the batteries while the engine is running? Can you give us more details please sir.
- You opened up the GEM, good information to have and not an uncommon thing to do when it is suspected bad or corroded. When cutting the small trace, do you suspect any other damage by leaning on an resistor, capacitor or pin? There is an entire section for the GEM in the 7.3L PSD Tech Folder if you have not seen it already.
- Prior to removing the fuse box and GEM, you had a bunch of DTC's related to the GEM, but now you do not, is that correct?
- These are the original trouble symptoms beside the GEM DTC's correct? "No cruise control, no AC, intermittent blower motor for the heater, constant door ajar light and alarm, no ground from PCM to the glow plug relay".
Once we get the details ironed out, we can find the common components to the issues you are experiencing and point you in a direction to success. Stick with us sir and keep talking, that is how we who are not able to see the issues in person are able to help you resolve them.
Sir, this thread may be of help as well if you are verifying the VIN: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...lp-please.html
As for the wiring diagrams, we can help with that.
I am not as good with the FSM as I would like to be, but I will do what I can and hopefully another FTE'r can pick up the slack if I fall short on the required information and illustrations.
The fuse panel under the hood in the engine bay is referred to as "battery junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-021 of the FSM. The fuse panel under the dash is referred to as "central junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-030.
Sir, I know you were having some issues with getting your FSM to work after restarting, did you resolve those issues?
As for the wiring diagrams, we can help with that.
I am not as good with the FSM as I would like to be, but I will do what I can and hopefully another FTE'r can pick up the slack if I fall short on the required information and illustrations.
The fuse panel under the hood in the engine bay is referred to as "battery junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-021 of the FSM. The fuse panel under the dash is referred to as "central junction box" and is somewhat detailed around 013-030.
Sir, I know you were having some issues with getting your FSM to work after restarting, did you resolve those issues?
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