Missing some lead in that weight.

With its ingrained catalog experience and local large stores, Sears could have done exactly what Amazon has done. It was all there, just not the mindset. Same with Penneys.

 

Some say the heavier a lead acid battery is, the more lead is inside, and thus, the better battery it must be.

The following six batteries are all Thin Plate Pure Lead (TPPL), rather than just regular AGM batteries made with thicker plates, or thinner plates that are matted in a spiral for improved mechanical support, at the cost of energy storage density for a given BCI form factor, but using recycled lead. Recycled lead doesn't hold up well when thinned out in a sheet, or so the technical information from the world's leading TPPL manufacturer would have us believe. This is why lead with a purity of greater than 99.some decimal percent is used in the manufacture of TPPL batteries that have the higher instantaneous energy delivery combined with the deep cycle longer reserve minute capacity that is characteristic of the 6 special batteries listed and carefully compared below.

But they are still made of lead, and are still considered lead acid, even though the acid is absorbed into fiberglass matting, rather than sloshing around as a liquid. Pure lead just tends to be denser, and thus heavier, than recycled lead laden with lighter impurities,

Take a look at how manufacturer reported battery weight mostly does, but occasionally doesn't, directly correlate with better, negligible, or the same electrical performance specifications:

Please note that at the time this comparison was made, Enersys had not yet purchased Northstar Battery. Please also note that Northstar was started by four former employees of EnerSys / Hawker, including the Chief Technology Officer, Dr. Frank Flemming. So the prodigal sons ran off with the business and manufacturing know how and technology, began a viable business that became fiercely competitive with the company they ran from, and then the scorned company rewards their runaways with a handsome buy out of the new company, becoming all one again. Quite a story.


Nominal Manufacturer Reported Weight:
58 lbs. Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 (As claimed by mfr, but the equivalent Odyssey Extreme used to also be listed as 58 lbs, but since 2016 has been listed as 54 lbs.)
55 lbs. Northstar NSB-AGM65 (As claimed by mfr.)
54 lbs. Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 (I personally verified 4 Odyssey Extremes manufactured in March of 2019 on a digital scale, and each weighed 54.4 lbs)
52 lbs. Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) (52.45 lbs)
50 lbs. Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 (49.8 lbs)
49 lbs. Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 (Northstar curiously omitted all references to battery weight for the Elite on their website as well as in the pdf spec file

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) 30 seconds @ 0°F (-18°C) per Cold Start Performance S.A.E Standard J537 as ratified by the SAE in JUNE 82:
950 CCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 950 CCA
950 CCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 950 CCA
930 CCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 930 CCA
930 CCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 930 CCA
762 CCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 762 CCA
675 CCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 675 CCA

Short Circuit Current:
5,000 Amps Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 5,000 Amps
5,000 Amps Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 5,000 Amps
5,000 Amps Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 5,000 Amps
3,300 Amps BatteriesPlus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 3,300 Amps
2,500 Amps Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 2,500 Amps
0,000 Amps Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Reserve Capacity in Minutes with 25 Ampere sustained load at 80° F (27°C) until voltage drops to 1.75 vpc (10.50V battery voltage)
145 Min Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 145 Minutes
145 Min Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 145 Minutes
135 Min BatteriesPlus X2Power SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 135 Minutes
135 Min Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 135 Minutes
134 Min Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 134 Minutes
129 Min Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 129 Minutes

Capacity at 20 HOUR Rate - Ah Capacity / # of Amps per Hour for 20 Hours Extended Discharge at 77°F (25°C) to 10.02V or 1.67 vpc
74 Ah / 3.70 Amps Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 74 Ah / 3.70 Amps
74 Ah / 3.70 Amps Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 74 Ah / 3.70 Amps
69 Ah / 3.45 Amps Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 69 Ah (However, Northstar claims to calculate Ah rate at the ResMin standard, to a discharged cell voltage of 1.75 vpc vs 1.67 vpc)
69 Ah / 3.45 Amps Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 69 Ah / 3.45 Amps
64 Ah / 3.20 Amps Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 64 Ah / 3.20 Amps
00 Ah / 0.00 Amps Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Internal Resistance at 1 kHz @ 77°F (25°C)
2.0 mΩ Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 2.0 mΩ
2.0 mΩ Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 2.0 mΩ
2.3 mΩ Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 2.3 mΩ
3.3 mΩ Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 3.3 mΩ
3.3 mΩ Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 3.3 mΩ
X.X mΩ Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) 30 seconds @ 32°F (0°C)
1,070 MCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,070 MCA
1,070 MCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,070 MCA
1,070 MCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = Stated only as "CA", and therefore could be HCA, so MCA is assumed based on Northstar NSB equivalent
1,070 MCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 1,070 MCA
0,891 MCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 891 MCA
0,770 MCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 770 MCA

Hot Cranking Amps (HCA) 30 seconds @ 80°F (27°C)
1,350 HCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,350 HCA
1,350 HCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,350 HCA
1,200 HCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 1,200 HCA
0,000 HCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = No Data
0,000 HCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = No Data
0,000 HCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Pulse Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA) 5 seconds @ 80°F (27°C)
1,750 PHCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,750 PHCA
1,750 PHCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,750 PHCA
1,750 PHCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 1,750 PHCA
1,500 PHCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 1,500 PHCA
0,000 PHCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = No Data
0,000 PHCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Warranty (Non Pro Rata)
5 YRS Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 60 Months Full (Fifth full year covered by Ascent Battery Supply LLC, owner of Batteries Plus)
4 YRS Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 48 Months Full
4 YRS Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 48 Months Full
3 YRS Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 36 Months Full
3 YRS Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 36 Months Full
3 YRS Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 36 Months through DOD supply chain


The formerly 58 lb, but now 54 lb. Odyssey Extreme is still about 11.5 lbs heavier than the Johnson Controls (now Clarios) manufactured AGM in the gray colored case sold under various brand names, depending on wax and oil chain store selling it. The so called "DieHard Platinum" sold by Advanced Auto is such an example, weighing in at only 42.5 lbs.

Northstar also has a lower price point offering similar to what Enersys does with the Odyssey brand. While Enersys split their TPPL AGM offerings up it into a high (Extreme) and low (Performance) series, Northstar likewise has a high (Northstar) and low (Northstar Elite) series. Yes, the "Elite" is actually a lower performance spec battery, despite the misleading name. I'm sure that is "buy" design, as potential buyers might get excited about acquiring a Northstar "Elite" battery for a lower price than Northstar's "regular" batteries, and immediately pull the trigger.

That's why looking at the specs is useful, and why I post them... to empower people interested in TPPL AGM batteries to see through the subterfuge. If the price is significantly cheaper, then the battery is likely significantly cheaper to manufacture, and what does that mean in terms of specs, and what do those specs mean in terms of battery longevity and performance. In the comparison above, we see that reported manufacturer weight may not be enough to make sufficient assumptions about battery quality, when there is the possibility that manufacturers may not update specifications between different sales channels of the same battery line. Clearly, more parameters need to be compared than just weight, for the reasons explained and illustrated in detail above.

Everyone loves photos, so here are the mugshots of the notorious gang of six TPPL AGM batteries discussed in this post, arranged below in my subjective order of preference when all factors of battery acquisition and replacement are considered, including performance as determined by specifications and some small construction details as described in previous posts. For example, Northstars have brass posts, but Odyssey Extremes go two better, with tin plated brass terminals for even greater corrosion protection, as well as more elevated posts (since 2012) to gain full circumferential face contact with newer style Ford battery cable clamps. Other deciding factors include battery availability, warranty, accessibility of the manufacturer for advice and customer service, ease of return should the warranty need to be exercised, and review history:





Odyssey Extreme 65-PC1750





Batteries Plus X2Power SLI65AGMDP





Northstar NSB-65AGM





Odyssey Performance 65-760




Northstar Elite ELT-65AGM






Hawker MILPC Group 65



As you can see when comparing the performance specifications to my subjective order of preference, there seems to be a bit of disconnect between the Hawker being on par with the Odyssey Extreme, tied in every parameter except weight and warranty, yet the Hawker lies at the bottom of the recommendation photo line up. That is simply due to 1) the restricted availability of the Hawker (limited to those with federal government / military purchase account access), 2) the ultra high margins that DOD vendors typically squeeze out of taxpayer dollars (think $600 hammer), and 3) the limited warranty (only 3 years), and the presumed near impossibility to make good on that warranty due to the manner in which the battery was obtained, if used outside of government business.

A seventh (7th) battery, ironically called the Interstate MT7, would have belonged in the list above, but for the fact that the MT7-65 was discontinued within a year or two of having been introduced. There was no point spending time researching the stats of a battery made of unobtanium, but for what it's worth, the MT7, at 770 CCA, was about on par the lower line Odyssey Performance and Northstar Elite series. Interstate named the replacement to the MT7-65 as the MTZ-65. These could very well be the same battery under a revised model name. But the question is, why was the model name changed? Especially so soon after introduction? Was it due to the dismal reviews of the MT7 in Consumer Reports, which can never be erased from the internet, and which will always be looked upon as gospel by some consumers who are not motor heads like forum followers are? Or were there some production changes, or internal differences, that inspired the name change? These questions might be addressed in a future update, and then the MTZ-65 will be added to this list.

 

I always appreciate your posting of the data.

 

Nice post Y2K... Going way back to my battery purchase thread, both Coolfeet (former 6.0 owner) and I ran into the same pricing oddity at AutoZone, where we both bought our Odyssey Extremes. The Extremes were priced significantly LESS than the Performance versions - I haven't checked back, but we figured somebody in the back office screwed up and reversed the two...

 

Yes @diesel_dan I had to put you on my "blocked member" list, because I was so enraged with envy at the deal you got delivered to your doorstep I didn't want to read about it anymore.

So Coolfeet got rid of his van? I'll bet the new owner is happy with the batteries at least. What did he replace it with? Another 2020 F-150 Screw EB?

 

I think he found another Ford Van but a gasser this time - his went to a good home, but he is missed here...

 

At least he lived up to his user name (Coolfeet), when it came to the 6.0L.

 

Thanks for the info, that’s exactly what I thought when I first looked at the specs on the Advance Auto website...these are the Advance Auto batteries with Die Hard stickers on them

 

So, I needed batteries ASAP yesterday, and got two new ones under warranty after 2.5 years from Advance Auto. When these go out I’m planning on getting the Enersys 1750. $300 each, but worth it as they seem to be better than the Advance junk, especially based on the info above.

 

I thought this was informative even though limited to only a few brands

 

His test procedure was a little loose; every time, you have to let the float charge burn off after charging. I also can never watch him with the voice on, although some say that about me too.

My older thread noted above was Walmart only at different stages.

 

Ha ha the first time I watched one of your videos I thought “That is NOT how I expected his voice to sound...” 🤣

Don’t get me wrong, your videos are awesome...even sorta tolerable with the sound on😜...but you’re funny as hell and in your videos you sound so serious, like you would NEVER get caught joking around 😂

 

I worked in friction. I have no sense of humor.

Edit -

I have a switch. When in sports, I went into full aggressive mode.

I do the same in business; I could goof around with the guys, then as soon as we start doing something, flip the mode. When I answered the phone at work, my wife said I'm in Jack Webb mode, just the facts ma'me. She would laugh. She even called once on speakerphone so her salon employees could hear how I sounded at work. She has owned her salon for 25 years, and she still won't let me answer the phone there.

I do the same with the videos. I can be joking around with my wife then start to do the narration—boom, flipped in mode, tunnel vision on the subject, the ball in singular vision.

Hit the gear button, you can change the speed.

 

Ha yeah, that’s what I figured. I enjoy both Jacks.

Hmm...that sounds inappropriate...