Yet another HG question thread
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Norlina NC
Yet another HG question thread
Yes here is another one of these threads... but heres the question....
is there a 100% guaranteed no question of possibility way to tell if its actually the HG causing the coolant to blow out the coolant bottle?? looking through the forums everything im finding says "possibility this... possibility that... could be this... " blah blah... "This test may suggest but not guarantee thats the issue...." blah blah....
did the coolant tank bubble test... get some bubbles pretty regularly there (but everyone says not a guarantee) i DO NOT!!! have the EGR cooler... and oil and coolant are separate since i did away with the factory oil cooler so cant go by the variance...
got one of them inline fancy pressure testers... it dropped 4 psi but dunno if thats from the new cap or if its actually leaking somewhere... (but when i started it up it re-pressurized back to 15 from 12psi since i was testing from 16psi) saw somewhere they mention a nitrous oxide test for the cooling system.. but even that they say isnt 100% guarentee... i dont have a combustion pressure tester for the 6.0 yet (still need to get me one of those).. but dunno if that would even tell me anything either...
is there a 100% guaranteed no question of possibility way to tell if its actually the HG causing the coolant to blow out the coolant bottle?? looking through the forums everything im finding says "possibility this... possibility that... could be this... " blah blah... "This test may suggest but not guarantee thats the issue...." blah blah....
did the coolant tank bubble test... get some bubbles pretty regularly there (but everyone says not a guarantee) i DO NOT!!! have the EGR cooler... and oil and coolant are separate since i did away with the factory oil cooler so cant go by the variance...
got one of them inline fancy pressure testers... it dropped 4 psi but dunno if thats from the new cap or if its actually leaking somewhere... (but when i started it up it re-pressurized back to 15 from 12psi since i was testing from 16psi) saw somewhere they mention a nitrous oxide test for the cooling system.. but even that they say isnt 100% guarentee... i dont have a combustion pressure tester for the 6.0 yet (still need to get me one of those).. but dunno if that would even tell me anything either...
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,832
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From: Jersey Shore
So far the most reliable way is the coolant pressure. Get hot, relieve all existing pressure while hot, then make runs both light-duty and under higher power. If the HG leak, the pressure will build and stay relatively up since compressed gasses have entered the cooling system. The chem testers do not appear to be that reliable. For gas yes, not diesel.
Cross-Country
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
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From: Fort Myers, Fl.
I personally was in denial and provided a reality check using the same testing procedures (no EGR) as described by TooManyToys and Hartwig. After 2 new HG's, surfaced heads, proper block preparation and few other misc. items, I don't ever see 10psi, even when towing my 15k 5th wheel in 95 degree temps. My symptoms were early HG failure (I presume) and included no puking but a constant tea kettle once warm. It took purchasing 3 new tank caps within a month before I accepted the fate of the factory HG's.
Cross-Country
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
Likes: 1
From: Fort Myers, Fl.
Jack, I did not. At the time, I didn't have a machinist edge that I was confident in for straightness at those tolerances. I jtook both heads to a local machine shop and requested they check them (properly) first before just surfacing them. The machinist noted they were just outside of acceptable (0.004 I believe??) in addition to the VJ and flow/leak test.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Norlina NC
I personally was in denial and provided a reality check using the same testing procedures (no EGR) as described by TooManyToys and Hartwig. After 2 new HG's, surfaced heads, proper block preparation and few other misc. items, I don't ever see 10psi, even when towing my 15k 5th wheel in 95 degree temps. My symptoms were early HG failure (I presume) and included no puking but a constant tea kettle once warm. It took purchasing 3 new tank caps within a month before I accepted the fate of the factory HG's.
what are yall using for pressure gauges to watch regularly?? with my new tank it has a 1/8" temp/pressure port i could put a gauge onto but not really finding much for coolant pressure gauges...
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
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I use the same electronic pressure sensor that I have for fuel pressure. I have verified that it is pretty close to being accurate with a calibrated gauge I have. I also have a cheaper method of verifying pressure, but I'll leave that alone for now (but I did do a 3 point calibration check for it using the more expensive gauge).
Personally, I am a little skeptical of being able to 100% for sure distinguish between an EGR cooler leak and a head gasket leak (unless your EGR cooler has been deleted or plugged).
Personally, I am a little skeptical of being able to 100% for sure distinguish between an EGR cooler leak and a head gasket leak (unless your EGR cooler has been deleted or plugged).
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Fleet Owner
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Shawn - the one thing you need to remember about puking is that there can be several reasons for it. The cap can leak at a pressure lower than intended, and the sealing surface can be rough or not be flat. The pressure pretty much tells the story, but even then you need to make sure that the coolant concentration is in the proper range (and so should be the oil and coolant temps). That said, if you have some abnormally high heat generation in the engine (essentially over-fueling), I can see how you might be able to flash boil some amount of coolant.
Edit - also when watching the degas pressure, you first need to make sure that there are no leaks anywhere in the system.
Edit - also when watching the degas pressure, you first need to make sure that there are no leaks anywhere in the system.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2018
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From: unfortunately Germany
use a standard manometer (range 0 - ~25psi). It does not have to be special for coolant
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Norlina NC
I use the same electronic pressure sensor that I have for fuel pressure. I have verified that it is pretty close to being accurate with a calibrated gauge I have. I also have a cheaper method of verifying pressure, but I'll leave that alone for now (but I did do a 3 point calibration check for it using the more expensive gauge).
Personally, I am a little skeptical of being able to 100% for sure distinguish between an EGR cooler leak and a head gasket leak (unless your EGR cooler has been deleted or plugged).
Personally, I am a little skeptical of being able to 100% for sure distinguish between an EGR cooler leak and a head gasket leak (unless your EGR cooler has been deleted or plugged).
Shawn - the one thing you need to remember about puking is that there can be several reasons for it. The cap can leak at a pressure lower than intended, and the sealing surface can be rough or not be flat. The pressure pretty much tells the story, but even then you need to make sure that the coolant concentration is in the proper range (and so should be the oil and coolant temps). That said, if you have some abnormally high heat generation in the engine (essentially over-fueling), I can see how you might be able to flash boil some amount of coolant.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,832
Likes: 3,119
From: Jersey Shore
when i put the new tank in i put on a new cap... thought the plastic tank split at the seams this last time so i threw on the aluminum tank i had in waiting... but i still ended up with it all over the place... ive only been filling it to the min mark when cold and middle between min and max when it was warmed up... its still puking it everywhere to the point the tank ended up empty... last towing trip it puked through 2.5 gal of coolant.. (had a half gal premixed before i left.. took my spare gallon that wasnt mixed... trip up it went through both even with me mixing the 100% to 50/50 to make the 2 gallons... we abandoned the trailer at my uncles place to "limp home" didnt blow coolant the whole way back.. only when i was pulling that 2000lb empty trailer (which the truck should have even cared about)... was supposed to come back loaded but after how things went going up i didnt want to pull a loaded one back with the truck.
thanks on the gauge suggestions... i was thinking of using an oil pressure gauge since their sensors are made to get wet..
thanks on the gauge suggestions... i was thinking of using an oil pressure gauge since their sensors are made to get wet..
Shawn, I don't see how it could be anything else.
What I found is these heads are quite flexible, so I have no problem visualizing they can lift in the center and blow combustion gas into the cooling system. I no longer see this as we would think the gaskets just blow out. Eventually, after having the issue a number of times the sealant fretts away and we are in a permanent state of loss of integrity, but it would explain why the puking is dependent on power in the early stages. All blocks of metal have a degree of elasticity and depending on the situation that becomes plastic deformation. We don't have a head bolt lifting issue, we have a head lifting issue. Ford says not to use the heads if they are crowned 0.002" in the center width wise. If these heads can move elastically, even that may be too generious.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,832
Likes: 3,119
From: Jersey Shore
That’s understood Hartwig. In the OE arena, they probably do. Every head moves as it’s clamped, every valve seat distorts as it is heated. There is what you can do reasonably, and what you can do off the wall. If you are thinking you are going to shove a head in an oven and get the same distortions with an operating head with coolant and all the other thermal variations, I think you are mistaken.