A quick, non confrontational response to;

The cheap interior - Sure it's a truck but a damn expensive one. At least keep up with the competitors.

The window issue - It is not so much that people open the windows in the rain as much as it is opening the doors after it has sat in the rain. Water pours all over you. Even my Expy has rain channels. I don't get an extra shower getting out of it and the SD outsells it 10 to 1.

Rear-end whine - Why should it? After 100 friggin years and countless axles put on their trucks, it is too much to expect them to make one (in the year 2003) that doesn't sound like it is going to self detonate? Or how about a real limited slip? We paid for it! Chevy's LS units rock!

Squeaky doors - Maybe their logo should read " If you haven't heard Ford's Super Cab's doors squeak, try again...you will. Silly...darn silly for you to spend all that money on a truck that creaks and groans like a wooden bridge.

I agree with the other stuff.

I believe the jist of this post was to point out the rather cheap cost cutting in such an expensive item. It seems that Ford can be a bit "Penny wise but Pound foolish."

I thought that this thread was going to have us all point out rather small cheap things that Ford did to save a buck. Not really get into the axles and what not. The silly stuff, like gauges. Not major stuff like the composition and type of plastic used in the HVAC ducting. Good grief! Run the AC once in a while!

 

1) They should be.... IMO

9) Good point....I'll send it to BOTH.

WRT
"Engineering doesn't care one whit about all the little doodads that they had to install into their "clean" design. "

--- I gotta RESPECTFULLY disagree with you there. When I worked at Ford, AND, where I work now, the lowly engineers like myself DO care. I can't tell you how much I hear, and make myself, when you spend 6 months making something work right, only to find out later that some brilliant chimp upstairs who never laid eyes on what you're doing makes a few "refinements" and trashes the functionality. THEN, they come back to you 18 months later with the "hey, we're getting too many warranty concessions on this design. What did you guys do? FIX it." Well, you make the SAME recomendations you made in the first place, they implement HALF of them (saving $$$s in their mind), and the process repeats for 2 years until they finally do EVERYTHING that was recommended, and everything all of a sudden works like it should. Yep...they saved a ton of money.

The engineers do care. Most of the time, they're motorheads that love cars, and it DOES bug 'em. I wish I could record the phone calls I have with school buddies of mine that work at Ford. Believe me, THEY want to do it right.

11) You're right. Ya **** 'em off, and they'll return the favor. I've always had good relationships with dealers I've dealt with.

BUT, the reality is, 99% of our opinions about "Ford", the company, are made at the dealer. They can't overlook that. Besides, Ford DOES have leverage with them, they choose not to make it a priority.

I feel like I got what I paid for, true. But 35k is a lot of money. My point was that for the same $$$s, a few things could have been cleaned up a little better.

 

I agree with everything except this. I don't just have a few scrapes and dents. The first time I hauled a load of rock, I had dents in the wheel wells that almost went through. I had a plastic, Contico tool box slide from mid bed, to the front of the bed in mine, going down a hill at about 30 mph hitting the brakes just enough to make a turn in to a driveway. It slammed the front of the bed into the cab. It left a baseball sized dent in the top rail of the cab front and a nice dent and scratch on the cab. It took me and a friend to pull the bed rail off the cab and a few whacks to a 2x4 placed on the rail with an 8# hammer to bend it back enough so it wouldn't rub. The thing is like paper. Minor dents and scrapes are to be expected, it is a work truck (for me) but hundreds of dollars in damage is ridiculous, just doing day to day work that an older F150 did for 5 years and had very little damage.

 

Kraut, what college did you go to for mechanical engineering?? I just sent my application in to NC State for engineering this week. Maybe one day I will be an engineer at Ford and get these things right for y'all.

When I become an engineer, the foreign companies will fear the name Ford, and the name of this future engineer (me!).

Did I mention I can hold my own in an arguement? Those accountants won't know what hit 'em when I break the news that quality means more than quantity. I know I'm sounding like a politician, but I would emphasize quality over quantity if I was lucky enough to be employed by Ford.

 

Expensive? I paid 30K for it (actually more like $29K). I do not consider that expensive compared to the cars out there now. In '96 I bought a T-bird for 22K. To get a car like that now, it would be more like $30K. Got the truck for the same price. For the heavy-duty aspects of it, and what it can tow/haul, I really think they are CHEAP... (I have an V10 XLT, not diesel crew Lariat)

I do NOT get wet when I open the door. Weird. Is your weatherstripping clean of tree debris? The top strip looks like it should channel away the water.

Rear-end whine? Anything that big is going to make noise. I think if it DOESN'T make noise, there's no way for me to guage it's condition Otherwise, if it's loud enough to hear over the radio on low, it's too loud.

Squeaky doors - granted they shouldn't do that. But, I bought it with eyes wide open on that fact.

Anyway, happy with my truck, I think it was cheap for what it is, and haven't had any real complaints so far.

As for the minimilist engineering, the cab squeeks could be overcome by stiffening up the chassis - but then it wouldn't ride so smooth either

I just think that you all would have been a lot better off researching and test-driving the trucks before you bought them. If they didn't meet your expectations, then you shouldn't have bought them.

 

Front Hubs.

Inadaquate Air Conditioning.

Plugs Blowing Out.

Real Guages.

Better Stock Shocks.

Stronger, thicker, sheet metal.

 

Kraut

Just a few words on the Toyota/Jap Suv. You are probably not 6'4" and 260lbs so fitting in one of these would be easier for others. My wife has a Honda Passport When she wants me to drive it I have the seat all the way back and still have to lean the seat back in almost a half recline position. Not to mention one knee on the center console and the other pressed against the door to keep them clear of the steering wheel. This is not just Passport specific.

What I am tring to say is the little things seem trivial but add up. the bigger picture is, trying to cope with a more pickey and opinionated public. Just getting them to acknowledge some of the above mentioned items would be a small victory.

I am one for function. So the wheel bearings and brakes are the biggie.

 

It's not that they do not meet our expectations, as you say. They just happened to exceed the expectations we have of the other manufacturers in making a truck as good as the Super Duty. (With its nit-picky faults and all...)

I knew right away when I bought my Excursion that Ford engineers were idiots for not putting headrests on the third seat and having a back rest that only goes up to a third grader's shoulder blade. Still bought it. Still bitched.

The sum of the "goods" out weighed the "bads". What the hell else was I suppose to do? Drive a Japenese SUV?? Or worse...a Suburban?

 

Ah HAH HAH HAH HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

 

Nah, only 6'1" 230....

I know what you're saying. I feel like a sardine in my wife's Camry too. I also sat in a Toy Sequioewqsdfrew, however you spell that, and felt like I was ina compact truck.

I love the room in the SD...part of the reason I bought one.

 

I have a 99 F350 SD, and at 80K miles have lots of rust starting in places that I wouldn't have expected it.

And I am super carefull about rust-proofing and cleaning my baby.

Otherwise I really like it.

-Brent

 

This degenerated from a productive thread into a session real quick - didn't it?

Krewat - When I bought my Crew Cab I had a choice between Chevy and Ford. I drove both and definitely made the right choice, although it is far from perfect and most of the 'problems' didn't rear up unitl I put a few 1000 miles on the truck. You may be able to glean all of your knowledge about a purchase decision based on a 30 miunte or 1 day drive, but I dare say you have to agree that the wheel bearing/hub assy is more of an engineering design problem with fairly expensive ramifications. In my personal case I did over $1500 damage to the front end before the problem was known - when the rotors started grinding on the caliper bracket - all before 50,000 (mostly highway) miles with no towing or extreme use.

As far as the water in the window controls, I'm not talking about a shower or down pour - try the washers with your windows down and see what happens - the water makes a beeline to the switches. It hasn't caused a problem yet, but I am aware I am probably looking to replace the switches in the near future.

Some of the things mentioned are fairly petty, I agree. I took the issue to be what corners did Ford cut that have turned out to be a drawback to owning a Super Duty or X. Most of us have plunked down between $30K and $50K for a truck that shouldn't have some of the faults it has - creaking doors, substandard paint, and yes even some of the creature comforts such as the crappy rattling cup holder.

If as a group of dedicated owners we can enlighten Ford in some way of what we don't like, hopefuly the truck can be improved to give better, reliable service with little additional cost.

Kraut - you've opened up a snakes nest here, you've got my support on a mighty daunting task. Thanks for starting the thread, lets see if we can keep this constructive and a little less back biting fellas...

 

Like I said in a later post, "research" ... I was on here and ford-trucks lurking for a year before getting my '01. Not just the test drive, which showed the squeeky doors, but a lot of research... never bought a new vehicle without it.

As for the windshield washer, you actually tried it with the windows OPEN? I don't know of a single vehicle I've ever driven that I would try that with the windows open. None... it's like driving in the rain - close the windows...

Yeah, the hub problem is a biggy. But is it the Dana 50 or the 60? Are they the same hubs? Do you have oversize tires? I had a bad wheel bearing from the factory in my '96 T-bird. I thought the alignment was out but at 500miles jacked up the front of the car and found the wheel moving top-to-bottom about 1/4" at the tire sidewall.

 

One or two things I DO think are crappy.

1) Stock shocks that can't even keep the rear end from swinging around at highway speeds on I-95 in New York. Run over some rough asphalt and both the front and rear end actually levitate and you lose control... solution? Installed Rancho 9000x's and Rancho steering stabilizer. Stock stabilizer was leaking at 500 miles.

2) No rear sway bar, or not enough front sway bar. Stock, a quick swerve at highway speeds would FLIP this thing. Especially with a cap on the back. Installed Hellwig rear bar, and it's much better. Now, I'll just spin out instead of flipping it