Ditto on the above items.

How about a base V8 with some *****. How about a V8 that doesn't drink oil like a frat boy drinks beer. One qt every 750 miles is normal?! Explain that one to me Mr Chief Engineer.

 

Poor dealer service is a big gripe of mine. Many small problems on our vehciles could have been better addressed and kept "small" if the service people were better skilled. Because of their defficiencies, molehills became mountains.

Overall, the quality of my F-250 is descent. There are things I'm happy with, and there are things I would like to see improve. One of these is the paint -- it's just plain thin. A thicker coat of quality paint would be easier to deal with as far as scratches are concerned. Another is the brakes. A vehicle that is designed for towing & hauling should have been designed with brakes than can actually stop it. Rotor warp is a prevelant issue -- mine warped, and I don't haul much, nor have I ever towed with it. There's more... I'll add if I find the time.

Lastly, just a [g]thanks to Kraut[/b] for taking the time to organize this hodge-podge of constructive critisism and direct it to the proper people.

 

I have a long list also but the dealership service areas are learning the lesson well for ford IF YOU SAY THERE IS NO PROBLEM THEN THERE IS NO PROBLEM! Ford should be jumping to make us happy, they make more on trucks and EX's then anything else we are the most loyal customers.
We are left to endure countless flashes none of which are as good as the first one including the last! Auto/ man. hubs that have been junk since they started using them (stuck in WY back country for 2 days waiting for things to dry up) thought they were the best of both worlds turned out to be the worst wouldn't lock up in auto and in manual they would move finally put a pair of pliers to them and it fell apart.(f%#^ed again. Creaking frame on ext cab nothing better than to spend $40,000 and step on the running board on a cold day to hear your baby creaking like a scrapyard truck with a cracked frame. Anyway sorry for venting. I'm waiting for my LL buy back and don't know what I should buy next. ( 9 new ford in last 13 years) I went and drove a dodge great bottom end seemed lacking on top end (no HO'S avail in NY) drove a chevy liked the power close to a good running 6.0 but truck seemed more like a car rode great smooth but don't know if it will be tough enough in the long haul. other option a used 7.3 chip it and wait to see what developes in the next year or two.

 

Well, I'k going to start summarizing comments on this end.

Can folks enlighten me specifically on what the weel bearing "problems" are.

Too wimpy....frequent failures.... what?

 

Wheel bearings:
Very frequent failures (20- 35,000 miles) some guys get less
The hub itself is to small for the size of the axle.
Distance between inner /outer bearing is to narrow to handle the lateral stress and rotation forces.
The seals that keep the water and dirt out of the bearing fail first and let it in to destroy the bearing.

Also not servicable ($300 ea)


Rich

 

WELL, my only complaint is that they tell me a quart of oil for 1500 miles (2 quarts for 3,000) is within their limits and is not a concern.

 

On behalf of engineers every where I wish you would not refer to yourself as one nor a Ford enthusiast. If complaining about owners manuals and floor mats is the items you came up with then I would say you should look harder or else where.

How about the properties of the plastic used for the air ducts in the trucks. They have too much organic material in them and allow mold to grow, thus making your truck smell like a dog kennel. I would think this is more important than the quality of floor mats. But I am not an engineer at Ford either.

Anyway, I take it you have the "letters" that Ford management wrote that declined these improvements. How come it is not posted. Just curious to see them.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, just wondering.

 

This is the second F-350 I have owned and I always buy the Lariat option. I could never understand why Ford engineers made the interiors soooooo plain. When you look at the competion their upgraded models especially the Dodge have much better asthetics / ergonomics. I have the burl on my side doors why didn't they put any on the dash, it just doesn't look right. Now I am looking to buy the after market dash panel that I should have been able to get from the factory.

How about upgrading those dated aluminum wheels and putting some decent tires on these trucks. Apparently Ford hasn't gotten the message that people are willing to pay for these upgrades. You would think after spending $47,000 on a truck you shouldn't have to spend any more doing upgrades.

Thanks for hearing my opinions now I hope Ford does.

 

For baylesr:

I call myself an engineer because I am one.....

One undergraduate degree in engineering and two masters degrees (one mechanical and one aerospace) in engineering, as well as a PE certificate and 15 years (and counting) of experience in the aerospace and automotive industry, leading R&D efforts in the aerospace industry, both as a consultant and direct employee, allow me to "call" myself one.

I also call myself a Ford enthusist, because I am one. The only brand of vehicle I have ever purchased/owned are Fords... because I like them.

As far as "complaining about owners manuals and floor mats is the items you came up "...

The list in the initial post was of mental notes made whilst reading posts here for many months. I never claimed ownership or development of that list. It was an attempt to set a tone and compile information/data.

as far as:

"How about the properties of the plastic used for the air ducts in the trucks. They have too much organic material in them and allow mold to grow, thus making your truck smell like a dog kennel. I would think this is more important than the quality of floor mats. "

Thank you, I will note that. I agree with you. My ducting is already beginning to have a "scent" of its own.

In response to:

"Anyway, I take it you have the "letters" that Ford management wrote that declined these improvements. How come it is not posted. Just curious to see them. "

No, I don't. Never claimed to. How did you extract that assumption?

You INFER that you may be an engineer. If you are, you know better than anyone else that large companies are insulated environments. The designers, engineers, technicians, lab techs, programmers (on and on) proably never actually ever talk to the recipient of their products.... in some companies by design.

In case you missed it, the american auto industry had a very rough go at it not so long ago, laughing at those japanese that put SO much attention into "meaningless" details. They're not lauging anymore. They certainly weren't laughing in the late '80s and early '90s. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for those laughable japs, we would STILL be buying cars with clocks that worked a week, engines that had to be dropped to change spark plugs, convertibles that leaked in the rain fresh off the assembly lines, cars that exploded upon rear impacts, chevrolets with oldsmobile engines, gas engines converted to Diesel by adding a "HD" cylinder head, V8-6-4 that may as well been called a V0, etc, etc. In case you forgot, GM had to get into bed with Toyota (remember Nuumi?) to learn how to build a small car after failing numerous times. Roger Smith was crucified for that... but he realized that there was no choice. The future of Detrot was at stake. Roger may had many faults, but he also made some good decisions that were not very popular.

I am choosing to be part of an attempt at proactive communication with someone in a position of (engineering) prowess in that company for them to possibly hear from the end user.

Ever call directory assistance and try to get a number for Ford? Why do you think you get an 800 number that rings at a contracted answering service?

True, it may be futile. Then again, maybe not. I chose to be an optomist.

Being a little judgemental, aren't we?

Anyhow, I respect your comments. I have extracted the ONE value added comment you made regarding duct materials. I will include it.

 

 

Kraut,

First let me tell you my motive for my letter, (even if I was apparently wrong) Many times using this wonderful tool we call the internet people often represent themselves as something they are not. My feel of your first letter was something less than what I would expect from a licensed engineer (P.E.) (sorry but I guess when you’re an engineer your always an engineer) All the
and so forth, led me to think otherwise. By the way you are licensed not certified, there is a difference and you should be very proud of this accomplishment.

The “letter” I was referring to was what you plan on writing, but when I read the original post. I thought (wrong) that you were referring to a letter already written by Ford management and I wanted to see the proof.


Well instead of wasting more space on the server I will stop. Thanks for being a concerned Ford Enthusiast. Sorry about the original letter.

baylesr

 

No biggie.....

What you say about the internet is true. I understand what you're saying. In this case, however, the worst scenario was true...

Especially as an engineer, I get VERY peeved, when companies makes it too obvious that the MBAs are running the show. Nothing is more powerful for a chief engineer than feedback from customers. Often it is the chief engineer that says "nah, lets do it right," and the MBA pulls out a dull pencil and screws a product. Live it every day.

BUT... there is a collection of issues that TRULY are pretty, well, crappy. You mentioned one in particular---the aromatic air conditioning ducts.

In todays environment, creaky doors, rattling cup holders, poor owners manals, ______ mats, non working hubs, poor paint quality, and any number of things that have been mentioned here on this forum, just aren't acceptable in today's environment.

I'm no toyota fan, but my wife has had camrys for years. I look at her car, and, dammit, EVERY detail is well executed, it feels like I'm driving a bank vault (not one creak, rattle, etc). She bought her car close to the winter months, and the dealer gave her heavy rubber floor mats (in addition to the stock ones), just because they didn't want her "to get her carpet messed up right away". She goes in for her regular service (warranty concerns on those things are as rare as ice cubes in the sonoran desert) and she is treated like a queen. I tried to get her to look at a ford. She said, why? I like the toyota, they've NEVER given me a problem, they're nice to me, and the car doesn't have any problems. My new 250SD has had more warranty work than her last four camrys combined. She's on her fourth Camry (are u listening Ford?).

Me, on the other hand, had to buy mats, and, when I go in for service (more often than I think allowable for a NEW car), it's a fight to get them to do the work. I had a telescoping mirror problem, and the service manager said that it would be a few days, as they have to call ford to get permission to change them...."they're real ________ about these mirrors" he said. I had to go back twice before a 1/2 hour fix was done, because the dealer didn't want to risk not getting reimbursed.
I had a paint problem. Took the truck in, and, they wanted me to pay for the rental (3 day job). I had to to get them to reimburse it.

I know, taken by themselves, these issues are petty. But 10 pettys equals 1 pain in the ****.

Not to mention that we pay 30k+, at a minimum, for these trucks. I wouldn't own a toyota for nuthin (I believe in buying domestic). But dammit, gotta hand it to them rice burners. They don't miss many little details on their cars. I know their trucks leave something to be desired.

All right, I'll sut up now. Welcome to the forum. We all want and enjot the same thing......250SD. Doesn't mean it couldn't be BETTER.

 

Kraut,

One more thing about quality and the USA.

Pick up a book about quality, what do you see all Japanese companies. Almost every little saying, acronym, or slogan has originated from the far east. Kaizen, 5s, quality cirlces. They realized that they had to listen to the customer to find out their needs. Not have the MBA tell the customer what they wanted.

Hopefully one day enough US companies will start listening to their customers needs and WANTS rather them telling them what they want.

I to purchase domestic products whenever I can even it means paying more and more service. My thoughts are if I live and work in the USA I will buy products that are home grown. Why should I put the food on the table for a family around the world??

 

US companys listening to the customers needs,what a concept!
It seems all they listen to is the stockholders, cut cost and make more profit. Read the articles, they are always looking to cut cost.(cheapen the part/product) I cant ever remember a CEO (big 3) telling us, "America, we are going to build you the best vehicle in the world, I guarantee it" But yet, a guy that makes vaucum cleaners will tell us that!
But is the consumer partly to blame, it seems the common thinking is to wait a year and let them work the bugs out, whats with that, we should demand the product be delivered to us right the first time! There is very little penalty for not doing so, so they lose a customer, big deal!!, there are new ones born everyday. Its got to be the way they think.
IMO we need a survey like "Consumer Report" puts out, fill it out with the likes and dislikes and direct the results to the proper people. I think kraut has a good idea, but it may have a better impact if more people were involved.

My Thoughts,
Lenny

 

A couple of $.02 on this...

1) Remember that manuals are NOT written by engineers.

2) I got my squeeky doors in my SC. But, I knew what I was getting into the day I test-drove it. The first dip in the road that caused the chassis to twist made it's presence known by squeeking the door seals.

3) Besides the water on the window controls (why open the windows in the rain to begin with?), any vehicle with the necessary rounding for aerodynamics will drip water into the interior...

4) Yeah, even just doing light-duty stuff I have dented and scuffed my bed/tailgate. But, I had a 55 gallon drum full of water (440 lbs) laying on it's side near the tail and had to slam on the brakes because of a deer. That thing hit the front of the bed so hard I assumed I was going to be fixing a huge dent in the back of the cab. Didn't even bend the front of the bed.

5) Would have been nice to have the Dana 60 upfront, but in '01, it was a Dana 50. No biggee, it's a Dana 60 housing with a 44 gear set. My old '74 highboy has a Dana 44 in front and that thing was launched, bogged and just plain slammed around and then had a worked 390 bolted up and went on some more 4x4 trips that no normal truck would ever take ... I anticipate that my front-end will deal with whatever I am going to put it through. True, it may throw a wheel bearing.

6) Mats? I have an XLT and it came with rug and mats. You bought an XL? Well, sorry, but XL's have always been bare like a cop-car.

7) Interior - oooh.. it's a truck. And a Ford to boot. What did you expect? Did you buy it blindfolded? (see number 6)

8) My rear whined a bit too. Seems to be gone now, after 13K miles... I kinda expect a 10.5" gear set to whine for a while. Even brand new 8.8" ring-and-pinions I installed do it for a little while.

9) Send your letter to MARKETING - not ENGINEERING. Engineering doesn't care one whit about all the little doodads that they had to install into their "clean" design. If you tell Marketing that they are losing sales because of this or that, they might listen. Engineers don't care about sales. They care about what they can spend and what specs they need to meet that were made by the stuffed-shirts. And forget the ECO's - engineering change orders. The spark plugs are a good indication of this. If you walked into an upper-level engineer's meeting at Ford, they would probably look at you like "what spark plug problem?". Dealers are not going to NOT do the work, they get paid for it. Inform Ford that there is a recurring problem? Why? They make money from it.

10) Take the money you are going to spend on the Lariat 4x4 crew diesel and buy a Jap luxury SUV. Then, go buy a 4x2 regular cab V10 for towing. You won't need the diesel after you take off all the frills. And, you're total towing rating will go UP because of the weight savings. Sure, you'll spend $20K more than that Texas Cadillac overall, but you can have the wife follow you in the Jap SUV and you won't have to listen to the kids! (or the diesel ... And when you want luxury, you can go over to the Jap SUV and drool on it's nice dashboard.

11) Customer service is the dealer. And how you treat them, and what you know BEFORE you have them look at it. I have been treated well by one dealer. My friend, same car, just 2 years older, got treated like TRASH. Why? He was not nice to the guy behind the counter, and he was known as a "pain in the a$$". I had springs AND shocks replaced on the front of my T-bird because I didn't like how it bottomed out pulling into this one parking lot. I complained that it had gotten worse (at only 11K miles) and they actually replaced the shocks first. Then, I took it back and said it wasn't any better and they changed the springs. Never had a problem getting them to look at anything in the car. First time my truck needs something, I'm going back to that dealer (not the one I got the truck from).

I got what I paid for - a TRUCK. It creaks, the dashboard is about the same quality plastic as my Triumph TR7's were, when I open the window in the rain, my arm gets wet. My kids love it, my wife doesn't dislike it anymore, and I'm starting to believe I will buy it after the 4-year UNLIMITED MILEAGE lease (Ford Red Carpet).