Radiator Options
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,338
Likes: 1,248
Stray currents can pass through the cooling system. There are several ways that the current path can end up going through the coolant and cooling system. You can check your coolant using this procedure:
http://ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101/how-to-test
I can definitely attest to a faulted alternator which destroyed a brand new rad and an older heater core by eating away the soldered joints. Ate the solder out of the joints between the tank and core on the copper brass unit in my diesel 250. Also attacked the soldered joints on the intake nipples of the heater core. The radiators in those trucks are thoroughly grounded.
There are two approaches to electro corrosion. Well grounded or completely isolated. Matt brings up a good point about dissimilar metals connected by an electrolyte. Coolant as an electrolyte is probably minimized by having an appropriate mix of anti freeze or possibly anti corrosion additive. I don't know about the coolant chemistry for sure but the more free ions in the mix the better the electrolyte is in creating a battery.
http://ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101/how-to-test
I can definitely attest to a faulted alternator which destroyed a brand new rad and an older heater core by eating away the soldered joints. Ate the solder out of the joints between the tank and core on the copper brass unit in my diesel 250. Also attacked the soldered joints on the intake nipples of the heater core. The radiators in those trucks are thoroughly grounded.
There are two approaches to electro corrosion. Well grounded or completely isolated. Matt brings up a good point about dissimilar metals connected by an electrolyte. Coolant as an electrolyte is probably minimized by having an appropriate mix of anti freeze or possibly anti corrosion additive. I don't know about the coolant chemistry for sure but the more free ions in the mix the better the electrolyte is in creating a battery.
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Tuned
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 453
Likes: 20
From: Little Rock, AR
OK seems to be some confusion here.
The reason for grounding the rad has NOTHING to due with stray currents that is a wiring problem that needs to be addressed with the vehicles electrical system. And proper grounding in the electrical system
The reason for grounding the rad to prevent the cooling system from becoming it's own battery. This is totally removed from and separate from the vehicles electrical system.
The fundamentals of a battery are 2 dissimilar metals (anode and cathode) in an electrolyte. In a cooling system you have the cast iron of the of the block and the copper/brass and the lead/zinc in the radiator. And the coolant can act as the electrolyte. This normally is never an issue in a system where the coolant is not allowed to age out and has been filled with at least a 50/50 mix with distilled water.
If the coolant has gone slightly acidic or alkaline it can act as an electrolyte with the dissimilar metals of the rad and the engine block can act as the anode and cathode. The lead/zinc in the solder of the rad or even the copper/brass can be eaten away as the coolant gains a charge. Grounding the rad prevents the cycle from even starting much like shorting a battery. As an example If you short out a lead-acid battery (pos to negative) you discharge the battery redeposit some electrons to the anode and the electrolyte goes from an acidic state (ACID) to a neutral state (Water). By grounding the rad you are doing the same thing as shorting out the battery. Heater cores don't usually see the same issues due to their smaller size and distance from the engine (the other dissimilar metal) but even then some vehicles have ground straps the heater cores contact in the heater plenum.
Stray current erosion is a separate issue but it can be the trigger to kick off the cycle of the cooling system becoming it's own battery. But if the rad is grounded this can not happen..
The reason for grounding the rad has NOTHING to due with stray currents that is a wiring problem that needs to be addressed with the vehicles electrical system. And proper grounding in the electrical system
The reason for grounding the rad to prevent the cooling system from becoming it's own battery. This is totally removed from and separate from the vehicles electrical system.
The fundamentals of a battery are 2 dissimilar metals (anode and cathode) in an electrolyte. In a cooling system you have the cast iron of the of the block and the copper/brass and the lead/zinc in the radiator. And the coolant can act as the electrolyte. This normally is never an issue in a system where the coolant is not allowed to age out and has been filled with at least a 50/50 mix with distilled water.
If the coolant has gone slightly acidic or alkaline it can act as an electrolyte with the dissimilar metals of the rad and the engine block can act as the anode and cathode. The lead/zinc in the solder of the rad or even the copper/brass can be eaten away as the coolant gains a charge. Grounding the rad prevents the cycle from even starting much like shorting a battery. As an example If you short out a lead-acid battery (pos to negative) you discharge the battery redeposit some electrons to the anode and the electrolyte goes from an acidic state (ACID) to a neutral state (Water). By grounding the rad you are doing the same thing as shorting out the battery. Heater cores don't usually see the same issues due to their smaller size and distance from the engine (the other dissimilar metal) but even then some vehicles have ground straps the heater cores contact in the heater plenum.
Stray current erosion is a separate issue but it can be the trigger to kick off the cycle of the cooling system becoming it's own battery. But if the rad is grounded this can not happen..
In your opinion, should one run a sacrificial anode in most applications? Would that be much less useful than trying to eliminate the problem to start, or should it be used in conjunction with the grounding? I have never run one, how fast does the "sacrificing" in a sacrificial anode occur on an improperly or loosely maintained cooling system?
Like I mentioned before, the vast majority of stray current can be rectified with better grounding elsewhere, and, like you mentioned, the solution to making sure the sacrificing of the less noble is curbed is distilled water and anti-freeze. Just taking care of the basics and maintaining the cooling system should solve the majority of the issues.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
That is a valid argument. I wasn't placing enough emphasis on the nobility of the dissimilar metals, I guess. I have always assumed the issue was more present on older vehicles because of grounding and stray current problems, but it checks out that the issue can also stem from not maintaining the coolant system in conjunction with the grounding problems that may kick it off. Makes sense to me.
In your opinion, should one run a sacrificial anode in most applications? Would that be much less useful than trying to eliminate the problem to start, or should it be used in conjunction with the grounding? I have never run one, how fast does the "sacrificing" in a sacrificial anode occur on an improperly or loosely maintained cooling system?
Like I mentioned before, the vast majority of stray current can be rectified with better grounding elsewhere, and, like you mentioned, the solution to making sure the sacrificing of the less noble is curbed is distilled water and anti-freeze. Just taking care of the basics and maintaining the cooling system should solve the majority of the issues.
In your opinion, should one run a sacrificial anode in most applications? Would that be much less useful than trying to eliminate the problem to start, or should it be used in conjunction with the grounding? I have never run one, how fast does the "sacrificing" in a sacrificial anode occur on an improperly or loosely maintained cooling system?
Like I mentioned before, the vast majority of stray current can be rectified with better grounding elsewhere, and, like you mentioned, the solution to making sure the sacrificing of the less noble is curbed is distilled water and anti-freeze. Just taking care of the basics and maintaining the cooling system should solve the majority of the issues.
Also today's coolants are far better then they were 30 some years ago. I can l not personally think of any application where you would want to run the old green glycol. My go-to for everything is Rotella Ulta ELC coolant it exceeds or meets the requirements for any application and practically is a lifetime fill (good for 600K miles).
And swappig to it simple a just rinse out the cooling system with water till clean. Drain the water (or as much as possible) and fill with ELC and distilled water or use the 50/50 if thats your flavour.
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