Right as always, Dave, heat transfer is reduced with antifreeze.

I'd rather the temperature never get close to the 50/50 max boiling point by running more water and less antifreeze than run more antifreeze and have a higher boiling point. Water in a cooling system with 13 PSI cap installed and no leaks has a boiling point of nearly 250*...who needs any higher than that? I'd have shut the engine off long before I got anywhere close lol.

I only want to run the little bit of anti-freeze for some freezing protection. It doesn't get very cold here in Arkansas, not enough to warrant the 50/50 mix, but occasionally does get below freezing for a few days at a time. And since I don't drive the truck every day, I'll take the freezing protection and whatever anti-electrolysis and corrosion protection it provides.

Radiator finally came in today, but I have to work on the Mustang tonight. Hoping to get the radiator and transmission cooler in tomorrow. Then I just have vacuum hoses, trans fluid, etc and I should be able to do the first start on the engine.

 

I don't disagree with anything said here. Just stating my preference. Great corrosion protection, boil over protection, adequate cooling. Hauling trailers over passes on hot days no problems. I have run 50/50 in every gas rig I've owned...except some air cooled VWs.

My Ford is a 6.9l diesel and it's always had 50/50 as recommended by Ford plus the anticavitation diesel coolant additive. I didn't even think about deviating from the recommended chemistry in the IDI.

 

I wonder what 50/50 mix protects to?
When I lived in CT everything was protected to -20F as it would get to that at times and I lived right on L.I. sound so you would have the wind chill too.

When I owned my diesel I would go to VT for weekends and play in the snow.
I remembered 1 weekend it did not get above -20F even during the day and my buddies cabin was on top of a mountain with wind.

I guess it all depends where you live and what you want for protection, from the cold or from rust LOL
Dave ----

 

50/50 protects to about -35°F/-37°C In arctic climes we run a 70/30 good to -67°F/-55°C, 70/30 also increases the boiling point about 15°F. The higher the concentration of Antifreeze the higher the boiling point, and the higher or better protection against corrosion but the trade-off is the lower heat-carrying capacity of the coolant. Mind you if you are having to run 70/30 mix chances are you are not seeing 100°F temps in the summer... Regardless 50/50 should be considered the minimum you run to maintain adequate corrosion protection (especially if you have aluminium parts in the system) the additional heat carrying capacity loss of a 50/50 mix compared to straight water is negligible. And any advantage will quickly become irrelevant as internal corrosion and deposits insulate metal parts from shedding heat.

 

Careful there, Dave. Wind chill is a subjective value based on how the combination of temperature and wind feels to a human. But it has no effect on the temperature of an inanimate object.

If you put a thermometer in a glass of water outside in the shade on a calm 33F day, it will read 33F all day long and the water will never freeze. With still air, the wind chill is also 33F. But what if the wind picked up to 25 MPH but the actual temperature stayed the same? The wind chill might now be 15F (just a guess), but the thermometer would still read 33F. The water would not freeze.

Wind speed will have an effect on how well or how fast a warm inanimate object cools off, but the item will never cool below ambient air temperature, no matter how fast the wind blows.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/weath...01-column.html


Years ago, I got into a heated discussion with a coworker. On a cold windy night, we had to run a jet up to takeoff levels for a power assurance test. We had charts for required power output at a given ambient temperature. My friend insisted we had to go by wind chill, but I said ambient. We finally agreed to do it both ways and call our headquarters when we got back for clarification. When we used wind chill wth a chart based on ambient temperature, the power output (and other values) was WAY out of range. Giving away my age here, but this was a 727 so we had two other engines for comparison.

 

The best way to describe windchill is the rate of heat loss.

Example

A 40°F ambient with no wind object X will cool to ambient in X amount of time.

Now let's say there is a 40 MPH wind with 40°F ambient temp, now object X will cool to ambient (40°F) in the same amount of time as if it was 27°F ambient with no wind. (yes that's the actual Wind Chill temp for 40°F with a 40mph wind)

Wind chill only means something when there is a risk of frostbite. As wind will reduce the period of time until exposed flesh freezes by increasing the rate of heat loss. Wind chill can not reduce the temp of an object below the ambient temp, (excepting any additional evaporative induced cooling)

 

I must have been out that day in school
Dave ----

 

Thanks for the physics lessons, interesting information.

I read a few forum posts from Ford owners that complained about replacing their new aluminum radiator multiple times because they all started leaking in one of the bottom corners. Some went back to brass. Apparently the culprit is electrolysis, which to avoid, the radiator needs complete isolation with rubber attaching parts, eg rubber pads beneath the radiator clips and any other area it may come in contact with any other part that will transfer current. But what about the water...?

Anyway, this makes sense, but has anyone experienced something similar, or exactly the same?

 

Isolating the rad causes the issue you can turn the cooling system in a battery with the rad as the anode, it needs to be grounded to the chassis so it has the same electrical potential as the rest of the cooling system.

 

I have always had radiators well connected to the supporting frames. Never tried to isolate one. But even well grounded radiators can be subject to stray currents from a short in the wiring or the alternator can have a short to ground. This kind of current can eat the soldered joints out of your cooling system.

 

Even if the alt has short to ground the rad will be the same potential as the chassis it would be physically impossible to have the rad consumed from internal electrolysis due to stray currents in the coolant.
External is a result of dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion usually occurring in the rest belt.

 

Did the factory provide any means of grounding the radiator? I haven't seen a grounding strap or anything like that (not to say it never had one), as far as I know. On my truck, the radiator sits on two rubber pads. Two brackets secure the top, but those also have rubber isolators. No metal to metal contact anywhere. Maybe the rubber is a special electrically conductive material? Or the hoses themselves?

Thanks for letting us pick your brain.

 

Depends on some vehicles they provided a rad ground strap, autos are grounded though the trans oil cooler lines, if there was little to no risk of the rad being eaten out during the warranty period none was provided.

 

Man, we have strayed from the OP

I recall a Technical Service Bulletin or Recall on some older Fords that had heater core problems. Don't know the year, make, model, etc, but I read about it somewhere. The "solution" was grounding the heater core.

All due respect to @matthewq4b and his knowledge on the subject, I'm not sure that's the best solution, I think it's one Ford came up with as a last resort.

Current takes the path of least resistance. If the least resistant path to ground is through the coolant and radiator, there's a problem with grounding elsewhere that should be addressed before resorting to grounding out the heater core or radiator, wherever the issue is. In my mind, you don't want to encourage electricity to flow through the radiator in the first place. Grounding out the radiator does that by providing it as a path to ground. If you have a ground wire elsewhere that's caked with dirt and grease or is just plain loose, it has even more resistance than usual in the first place. As current passes through the higher resistance ground, it gets more resistant (temperature induced resistance at the connection point). At some point, the resistance of the typical path to ground becomes too high and the current "looks for" a lower resistance path to ground.

In my mind, the better solution would be to provide the source of the voltage with better paths to ground, aka add ground wires back to the frame and, ultimately, the battery.

I'm not saying the ground to the radiator is bad, I just don't think it would be my first go-to fix. I'd leave it ungrounded to start and do a voltage check with a lead in the coolant. Clean/Check ground wires. Possibly even use a set of jumper cables or other easily clipped on leads and try adding a ground in different places to see if I can reduce the voltage inside the coolant. That failing, I may resort to the grounding of the radiator. But I think on many vehicles plagued by electrolysis issues, improving grounds would fix much of the issue.

That's just my understanding and point of view. Happy to hear more on the subject. My mind is open.

 

OK seems to be some confusion here.

The reason for grounding the rad has NOTHING to due with stray currents that is a wiring problem that needs to be addressed with the vehicles electrical system. And proper grounding in the electrical system
The reason for grounding the rad to prevent the cooling system from becoming it's own battery. This is totally removed from and separate from the vehicles electrical system.
The fundamentals of a battery are 2 dissimilar metals (anode and cathode) in an electrolyte. In a cooling system you have the cast iron of the of the block and the copper/brass and the lead/zinc in the radiator. And the coolant can act as the electrolyte. This normally is never an issue in a system where the coolant is not allowed to age out and has been filled with at least a 50/50 mix with distilled water.
If the coolant has gone slightly acidic or alkaline it can act as an electrolyte with the dissimilar metals of the rad and the engine block can act as the anode and cathode. The lead/zinc in the solder of the rad or even the copper/brass can be eaten away as the coolant gains a charge. Grounding the rad prevents the cycle from even starting much like shorting a battery. As an example If you short out a lead-acid battery (pos to negative) you discharge the battery redeposit some electrons to the anode and the electrolyte goes from an acidic state (ACID) to a neutral state (Water). By grounding the rad you are doing the same thing as shorting out the battery. Heater cores don't usually see the same issues due to their smaller size and distance from the engine (the other dissimilar metal) but even then some vehicles have ground straps the heater cores contact in the heater plenum.

Stray current erosion is a separate issue but it can be the trigger to kick off the cycle of the cooling system becoming it's own battery. But if the rad is grounded this can not happen..