Hey guys,

Engine swap was successful, the truck was running fine, took a bit of cranking to start up. The other night I went to start it and there were no lights, no crank nothing... Tried jumping the car to no avail. I have replaced the solenoid, the starter, the battery and the ignition switch. I am still getting a battery drain then I try to engage the starter. The new ignition switch almost seems like it isnt engaging the starter at all so I tried bypassing the solenoid which had worked before and the drain happened again, no lights no dash. Is this a short? bad wire? I thought I heard the relay click as well. Please help me out, I have been trying to make sense of my multimeter readings but Im very confused. Also is the starter from an automatic ok to use on a standard transmission? the parts store was out of manual transmission starters, the differences seemed minimal besides a slightly larger solenoid on the side. Any replies appreciated.

 

Does it start in neutral rather than park?

 

It sounds like you have a dirty connection(most likely) or a bad cable. You can install a new battery and if you have dirty cable ends where they hook onto the battery posts you will still have a problem. Check all the connections especially where the cables hook onto the battery posts.

A starter for an automatic transmission will start your manual transmission truck but it will make a noise,when the engine is running, you can't really use it.

 

What engine swap? Because you recently did that, this might be a good question to ask in your discussion about it so everybody knows what has been done.
And when you say it took a bit of cranking, did it actually struggle to crank, or did it just take longer to start with normal cranking speed? Any funny noises?

I just mentioned this scenario in another thread. If you hit the key and all the power goes out, it's your battery cables or a fusible link in the main power wire. One or both of them, but in my case it's usually the positive side between the battery and relay/solenoid. However some members here have found their ground cables deteriorated, which makes sense too since they're longer and attach down low to the engine. So are in harm's way more.
The other part about the fusible link is less common, but sometimes the link in the Black wire running from the starter relay to the cab can partially melt and allow just enough power to fool you into thinking it's ok, when it's really on it's last legs.

Just FYI, even though each of those parts can effect how well the starter cranks, neither the starter relay/solenoid, or the starter are able to cause a loss of power to other things.
Although, a struggling starter due to whatever reason can certainly put more strain on cables and fusible links

When you say battery drain, you mean the lights go dim when you turn the key to START? Or that the power goes out completely?
When it does go out completely, how long does it take to come back on?

New ignition switches can be a problem too, due to poor quality. When you bypassed the relay, did you go from one large post to the other, or jump from the battery to the small "S" post near it with the Red w/blue wire?
When you did that, I assume by drain you mean that you heard the click, then things struggled. But again, did they lose power completely? If so, check your main cables.
Did the starter even try to spin, or just nothing?

Seems the relay is working at least partially, but either the starter is not getting the power, or something else is wrong.
For the moment we can ignore the ignition switch because you could not get it to start even when you bypassed the relay. So let's concentrate on the cables and connections.
Could be a bad starter too, but that's not as common as a bad starter relay or ignition switch thankfully.

No. Even a slight difference is a non-starter. It's wrong, which is why they list two different starters. And you can't successfully diagnose the other problem every time until you change the starter out for the correct one. If not you might not know when you're chasing one problem or the other.
Which engine and trans combination is this?

Good luck.

Paul

 

hey guys sorry I missed some info. Here’s the update. I swapped out my old busted 1994 5.0 with a 1991 5.8 from a Bronco. The truck ran great for about a week. The starter just seemed to work harder but if I gave it gas it would start every time. This issue occurred very suddenly. I was able to jump the solenoid a total of two times and now that doesn’t even work. When I say power drain I mean all of it instantly. I am hearing a small ***** which is the starter hitting the flywheel and then the lights go out, no power to any of the system. Nothing. If I remove the cables it seems to reset the battery but the same process occurs. I have replaced the solenoid, the battery and the starter. Both the battery and the start were tested at the O’Reillys I go to and both had problems, however my problem still persists with the new components. I checked and replaced the ignition switch but the switch wasn’t a good fit and didn’t engage the starter at all. So I returned it and put the stock switch in. I now believe it to be the cables or a ground problem. My nest move is to simple rewire the positive to the solenoid cable, as well as the two cables from the solenoid to the starter. I will keep you posted. Any more suggestions are more than welcome, thanks guys

 

Nope, not at the moment. That's where I'd start too.
Knowing what I know now, I might even buy all three, but only do one at a time to see which one is the issue.
With mine (the only time it has ever happened to me personally) it was the short positive cable from the battery to the starter relay. And even though the other two were much older, the one that needed replacing was only two or maybe three years old at the most.
It looked to be in great shape too, which is how I came to realize that outward looks are not always the whole story with battery cables.

I sure hope that's it with yours. It's inexpensive even to by the larger gauge ones, it's easy to replace them (at least on older trucks) and then you're good to go in that department for many more years hopefully.
When you're changing them, obviously make sure that the mounting surfaces are clean. Neither being soaked in oil, or the opposite of that, being rusty, are good things.

Good luck.

Paul

 

great! Will start there tomorrow, I’ll let you know how it goes thanks man

 

Since yours is a '94 you can probably buy a pre-made factory replacement cable (more of a "harness" than a single cable) from the local parts store. The problem with that is the cost is high and the fact that you'll just end up with the same old thing.
The good news is that this "same old thing" cranked the engine pretty well and lasted almost 30 years!

But my personal recommendation is to get some measurements, buy some pre-terminated 2ga cables and roll yer own so to speak.
Up to you of course, and it's totally acceptable either way. I just like the overkill factor of larger cables, and sometimes I even like to change the routing from where the factory put them to something either better, safer, or just easier to get to.
The factory actually does a very good job of routing them safely, but sometimes I like to just clean things up a bit.

Can't wait to hear what you end up with. And even more so that it actually fixes this pesky problem!
Then again, before spending any money make sure that you check for loose connections! After all, you just swapped engines and had it apart recently. Make sure it stayed put after you were done.
Knowwhatimean?

Paul

 

hey Paul,

quick question, I decided to rewire all my connections myself. Found 4 ga and 14 ya wire at the store, but I couldn’t find the main 2 ga wire So I got some at Home Depot. It is not “battery wire” and the inner wires are thicker than the ones that would be in automotive wire. My understanding of electrical wire is that the gauge dictates the current and resistance. Can I still use this wire?

michael

 

Possibly, but I would not set it up for long-term and go through all this trouble. I think the more strands it has (up to a point) the more flexible and less prone to vibration and chemical/oxygen intrusion.
Got a picture or a description or a link to this wire/cable? If all you can find is 4ga, that's still more than was in there originally. If you need 2ga battery cable wire you can find it at most auto parts stores by the foot as well. Or at least you could for awhile. Most of them now carry pre-made 2ga along with the 4ga, but not sure if they're all going to have it by the foot like I have in mine here locally.

I guess I'm saying that if it's 8, or 10, or 30 strand wire for example, it's not going to come as highly recommended as 100 or 300 strand cable. I'm just using those numbers as examples though. There are fairly standardized strand counts in wire/cable these days. Welding cable and high-end audio cable have super high strand counts compared even to regular battery cable.

So give is a better description (strand count if nothing else) of the Home Depot wire please.

Paul

 

Counting 19 maybe 20 strands. Cable is very rigid, but I think it will get the job done? It was like 1.50 per foot, so pretty cheap, if you think I should order some specific battery cable I’d love to know more specifically why, I don’t mind buying the better option, I’m just curious to learn about all the electrical stuff works

 

Well, I would not use it, but sorry to say I'm not expert enough to remember why it does not seem right. I believe it will conduct the electricity just fine, but maybe my feelings are more towards the fact that it's so rigid and we need flexibility just to keep things neat and tidy.
And resistant to constant vibration too. Where house wire is supported and does not conduct anywhere near the amperage that an automotive starter/battery cable does (though 250v vs 12v is an obvious difference here too) I'm assuming there's a reason that nobody in the industry uses this type of wire.
The OE's would never use something more expensive if it did not have a very good reason.

But like I said, it's going to conduct the current to the load. Just harder to work with.
Do you have really stout crimpers? Are you going to solder it?

Hopefully someone has a valid argument either way. I don't mind being proven wrong (or a ninny!) but I always want to shout out when something doesn't seem right too.
All that whining aside, I'm pretty sure I used household wire on my alternator charge cable because that's all I had laying about at that moment. But it was still more strands than yours, and fairly flexible.
So I could be barking up the wrong phone pole.

Paul

 

Hey Paul,

After rewiring she started up like new, had alot of built up fuel pressure and she ran rich for a few minutes but seemed to run good. I am gonna close the books on this one. For anyone interested I used 2 Ga battery wire from the positive terminal to the starter, 12 Ga from the solenoid to the starter and 4 Ga from the positive terminal to the other side of the solenoid. I ditched the factory wiring rerouting clip thing that connected to the engine block and the negative engine ground wire. I think the corrosion on this piece may have contributed to the problem and used good old fashioned zip ties to mimic the factory wiring route. Other than that kept everything the same. New starter, battery and solenoid, and of course new wiring. Still not sure which of the three wires was the culprit, I was less interested in replacing them one at a time and ran them all at once, but the problem is fixed. Thanks Paul for the continued guidance!!!

 

Great news! Nice to hear it cranking up and running again I'm sure.
I don't follow you on all the connections, but they're obviously doing their job. Keep the old starter relay as a spare handy at least for awhile. You've probably heard the horror stories of them lasting a week or less, so it's good to keep a known working one handy for at least awhile.

Good luck. Good job on getting it dealt with.
So was the corrosion you mention down on the block where you can't readily see it? Was it hard to see even with the wire in your hands, or did it become obvious once you took things out?

Paul

 

corrosion was not obvious. I cleaned up any ground wires and connections that I could. There is a stud mounted on the engine just behind the smog/air pump. Connected to the stud is the ground cable that runs from the negative battery terminal. Also attached to that stud was a small hook designed to route the positive starter wires as well as the O2 sensor. That’s the hook I removed it had a good amount of rust and corrosion. It was also clamped down really hard on the wires possibly during the engine swap it may have gotten pinched. I cleaned up the stud and the part of the block it threads into and that along with nice new wires seemed to fix the problem.