Hey all,
No posts for long time, however in my 2004 F150 with 125,000 on the clock I was driving around and it started bucking and not running well. Shut her down, restarted and it was ok. Then I drove on a bit and it started again, threw a light. It is running rough at idle and there are noises now as well. Tick is noticably worse. Codes I got are listed above, Lean in bank 1 and Over-retarded cam in bank 2. Could this just be the PCV valves is my question I guess or have my phasers finally gone. Thanks!

 

cleared codes and ran again. Still getting 0022 but also now getting p2198. Stuck in rich position. It smells rich as its running.

 

NO -

and

- Maybe.


PCV valves have nothing to do with it (LOL) - but you probably meant VCT valves and they really might. At least the chance is good enough it would be a useful diagnostic effort to just replace them. At least the new ones would be fine to use as part of a complete timing job should that be the final result. The Lean code on bank 1 is a confirming indicator of Bank 2 being over retarded enough to negatively effect fuel/air trims and produce rough idle.

Having said all that - I would do this in a couple of steps, that might help you project how much time you have left before the enevitable timing job. My 2004 5.4 went to 212k miles before having to do a full timing job, though some anoying symptoms showed up earlier.

It is important to note that P0022 is a 'sticky' DTC. TECHNICALLY if a cam is retarded more than 5º from setting commanded by the PCM for more than 5 seconds ----- BINGO, P0022 is set. Once that condition occurs the code (and MIL) stays until it is cleared -OR- there are two drive cycles without the condition reoccuring. An intermittent STICKY VCT solenoid, or one that is not operating 'smoothly' CAN cause this.

A thorough engine flush might improve things (a little or a lot) or a while. In either case it would be benificial an could be a useful indicator of cause. If it did - certainly a 'sticky', but workable solenoid or phaser. If not - replacing VCTs would be in order. If that helped, stepping up a grade in oil weight.

Thorough engine flushes, I do it about every other or third oil change on mine. I pour in a quart (of Motor Mechanic or Kreen) at the end of a day (about 50 'lite' driving miles) before shutdown. Let it set over night, then warming up, do several second gear torque ups to around 1500 RPMs (This exercises phasers to full retard and back to full advance) several times. Then drain and change oil/filter.



FOLLOWUP

Don't panic - P2198 is very similar to P0171. A retarded cam inhales less air than the other bank. The natural result is for the PCM to adjust fuel trims trying to compensate for the difference in air injestion and keep fuel/air ration proper. Serious inbalance in fuel trims is a natural result of a cam being over-retarded. Concentrate on the over retarded cam for the moment.

 

Thanks for the response! Very helpful. Yes I meant VCT solenoids. The print out from autozone showed pcv valve. Question? Is unplugging them and running it a useful diagnostic trick? I did that and it didn't help anything. Just was wondering. Thanks again.

 

Unplugging VCTs _GENERALLY_ is of LITTLE to NO diagnostic value. Requires weighing reaction against results with understanding of how the system works. REASON: VCT Solenoid is a "Normally Closed" valve routing 100% of 'available oil flow and pressure' into the advance chambers of the Phasers. AND the PCM does not command 'retard' (or activate the VCTs) below 800 RPM and > 25%-30% engine load. Thus unplugging them at idle should be of NO effect on a properly working system.

HOWEVER - in your case ---- unplugging them with NO change could tend to 'confirm' the previously suggested possibility that the VCT solenoid is sticky or 'unable' to close completely to route 100% of available oil pressure and flow into advance chambers like it should ---- THUS one phaser would remain partially or totally retarded when it should NOT BE.

I would jerk that dude out and see if the filter screen on it is jambed inside binding it.

 

Just did unplug both vct solenoids and drove around the neighborhood, no change in how it was running. I did get a shop to take it in tomorrow, however I also ordered new vct solenoids from rockauto today, the cheap ones, but it showed it comes with new seal. However they aren't coming till friday. I guess as you said I could pull that one out and see what it looks like, but I know id probably have to ruin the seal to get it out because I wouldn't be removing the cover.

 

It is about the ONLY visual available. With the rough idle, P0022 and P0171, - the question is "WHY IS BANK 2 PHASER NOT returning bank 2 timing to BASE ZERO RETARD when the PCM is NOT commanding retard (ie ZERO% duty cycle pulses to VCT) (AND no change with VCTs unplugged) - ie; 100 % available oil flow & pressure routed to Phaser advance chambers???

Bad / stuck / froze VCT

Broken / frozen Phaser

Plugged / clogged advance oil passageways in VCT valve body / head / camshaft?

Timing chain jumped a tooth or two on bank 2?

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I've seen posts on here where the small filter screens in VCTs collapse inward obstructing valve movement. And with it out, you can hit it with 9volt battery and actuate it. Replacing it will remove the first of the above four possibilities.

I changed mine twice outside of the 212k timing job - and both times ruined the seal. But you could drive it to the repair shop with "duck tape" around the VCT it if you had to. I would actually want to know the answer to the above question for the cost if it were me.

 

thank you for all your help! Might try to change them out tomorrow. See if local dealer has the seals and I can get the solenoids from autozone if motorcraft ones are insanely high. I can always return rock auto order. Just be out the shipping.

 

got my fingers crossed!

 

Update!! Good news!! It was the vct solenoids. Got the Duralast from AutoZone. They do come with the seals included. $55 a piece. Did the job early this afternoon. I bought a 4 inch T 27 screwdriver. It would actually be helpful to have about a six or 8 inch one. It wasn’t quite long enough.(I usually don’t have that problem, lol&#128521. The hardest part of the job is getting the old seals out. That is a pain in the butt. The passenger side is very easy, as there is plenty of room. Then I did the driver side next, which is where my code was showing up for over retarded timing. It is much worse obviously as there is less room to work. I removed the power steering reservoir, but it would help a lot if the bracket was removed. But that looks like more than I wanted to get into at that time. Anyway, when I pulled out the solenoid on that bank I could see the screen was collapsed. So that made me optimistic. Got the new seals in, the one on the driver’s bank is hard to get in because there’s not much space to work with under that bracket. Unhook the battery for about 10 minutes, then hooked it up and fired it up and took for a drive and everything is back to normal! Thanks so much for your help!👊🏻 I am very grateful that I was able to do this job and not cost me a ton of money and it was only $120. Glad that the full timing job is avoided, for now. I will try to post pics of the faulty solenoid.

 

That is GREAT news. It is always enormously satisfying when a forum member beats the repair shops bill by doing a repair with much more personal care than they generally can afford to expend.

You should be on your way to some more trouble free miles before the timing job has to be done. BTW - flush the system every other or third oil change, keep good quality oil in it - and I just happen to be a fan of Marvel Mystery Oil.

 

I generally do this after I fix an engine light/thrown code AFTER 50-100 miles when I'm sure problem is fully fixed to let the truck re learn quickly it's "normal" operating parameters now that problems aren't throwing monkey wrenchs in the pcms thought pattern.

 

^^^^ Good practice ^^^^ suggested by @Onemoreblessedtexan

After swapping any major component it is a good idea. We can be sure in the current case the OP's fuel trim tables were ALL whacked out of shape from the bumb VCT solenoid. Sure we got rid of the P0171, but It can be a little while before all the fuel trim tables settle back down. Clearing keep alive memory and going through the complete battery disconnect 'Relearn' procedure speeds the process up.

Thanks for reminding us.

 

Good idea. Yes thanks guys for all the help!