Engine swap: Coyote, LS or ???
Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
Manual trans doesn't have any slip and takes less power to turn (frictional losses and rotating mass differences) so that's normally where the MPG gains come from. With that said, it won't likely be a large gain (as has been stated). Normally it's in super low power econoboxes where the manual trans is significantly better simply because their tiny engines don't have enough hp/tq to make up for the losses associated with an auto trans.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,338
Likes: 1,314
From: Central Mississippi
Pardon the hijack... 
Had the brilliant idea that wife & I take my 92 GT (FRPP "King Cobra" clutch) to spring race at Talladega one year... took about 2-1/2 hours to go from interstate to park.
Never, never, never, never, EVER again. Practically needed a crutch to get inside.
Never, never, never, never, EVER again. Practically needed a crutch to get inside.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
I'm not planning on staying with 4.10 gears (unless I add a Gear Vendors overdrive) so I'm not too worried about the difference in OD ratios between an E4OD and a ZF5. And i don't do much stop-and-go driving, so I'm not too concerned about wearing out my left leg. I drove an '85 F-250 with a manual for 182K miles, as well as another 60K or so on other sticks. So I'm aware of what I'm getting myself into there. And as hillbilly said, to each his own (but I don't like autos).
Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
thats another 3k on top of the trans swap for that gear vendors just pointing that out. on some gv setups you have to have driveshafts modded. idk on this application. not something id do but its not my dime. the extra od may help mpg somewhat. i know cummins like mine its a 1 mpg increase roughly. i dont think you can tow with it though. you can but only to a certain limit just read about it. i also dont know how well they work with a manual trans ive only seen them on a auto but its out there for it. still 4 or 5 k to get 1-2 mpg is kinda crazy. thats if you do all the work yourself.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
I'm not sold on the Gear Vendors yet. But I definitely need to drop my final drive ratio if I want better mileage. A Gear Vendors for $3k or regearing two axles for $2k gets closer to a wash. And still having 4.10 gearing when I want it is worth something. All I know now is that I need to do something along those lines, but I don't know what that'll be yet.
If I go with a Gear Vendors it'd go on the rear output of the transfer case (so it could only be used in 2WD) and would require shortening the drive shaft. But that's ~$150 so I don't know why everyone makes such a big deal about swaps that require driveshaft work. From what I know you can put all the torque I'd ever need to through one when it's in direct drive, and it'd be fine in overdrive 95% of the time. You aren't supposed to engage then below a certain speed to prevent them slipping, so it'd mean starting in 2nd gear - direct, running the trans up to 5th and then shifting into OD (when I wasn't towing something too heavy). A little more complicated and a little more expensive than just regearing. But maybe worth it to have both 4.10 and ~3:1 final drive ratios available.
If I go with a Gear Vendors it'd go on the rear output of the transfer case (so it could only be used in 2WD) and would require shortening the drive shaft. But that's ~$150 so I don't know why everyone makes such a big deal about swaps that require driveshaft work. From what I know you can put all the torque I'd ever need to through one when it's in direct drive, and it'd be fine in overdrive 95% of the time. You aren't supposed to engage then below a certain speed to prevent them slipping, so it'd mean starting in 2nd gear - direct, running the trans up to 5th and then shifting into OD (when I wasn't towing something too heavy). A little more complicated and a little more expensive than just regearing. But maybe worth it to have both 4.10 and ~3:1 final drive ratios available.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
well if you can do the work yourself regear is alot less. probably half that equation. i dont know if you can set up gears by yourself though. if i couldnt id find a 373 rear complete rear unit and bolt it in. should be cheaper than pulling yours apart. the d60 though you will be better off just regearing it. no cutting a ds down is pretty easy to do. just mentioning it.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
so doing the math your e40d pulls the same rpms on the highway with 4.10s as a zf would with 3.73 gears. man i just dont think its a great idea.
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FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,338
Likes: 1,314
From: Central Mississippi
Build the E4 for over 1K HP/TQ. Get one of the new controllers that support paddle shifting or auto operation on demand plus programming & bolt on the GV.
Gear vendor is the sponsor of HotRod's Drag Week. All the top contenders are cranking over 800-1000 horsepower in 5 & 6 second vehicles that have to do road duty + the race schedule.
You can tow with it.
Gear vendor is the sponsor of HotRod's Drag Week. All the top contenders are cranking over 800-1000 horsepower in 5 & 6 second vehicles that have to do road duty + the race schedule.
You can tow with it.
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 279
Likes: 3
From: Shawnee KS
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 687
Likes: 20
The best way to increase mpg and move 6 people around is get a minivan. There's no way you're getting 20mpg out of a gasser 3/4 ton truck. It's not happening.
You may get close with a 2.7 or possibly a 3.5 Ecoboost and drive it conservatively.
Look for a dyno sheet on a stock ls, they don't make decent power really until 3500 rpm or so.
You may get close with a 2.7 or possibly a 3.5 Ecoboost and drive it conservatively.
Look for a dyno sheet on a stock ls, they don't make decent power really until 3500 rpm or so.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
Unfortunately there will be a long delay in the story. As I said at the start, I'm a few big Bronco projects away from being able to work on my truck. And what it ends up being is yet to b determined. But I spent 6 years not having a truck I liked and I really don't see getting a minivan. I'm going to be driving an older Ford truck as long as it's at all possible. I really hope I can get at least somewhat reasonable mileage. And I've got some time to try to figure it out.
So yes it'll be interesting, and I'll definitely keep you posted. But don't hold your breath!
So yes it'll be interesting, and I'll definitely keep you posted. But don't hold your breath!
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,484
Likes: 2,773
From: Northern Ontario
Hey, did you figure out how to actually do the LS/LQ swap? I’m curious. I’m just starting in on a 96 250 project, and the the thought has crossed my mind now. I have an 2005 6.0 LQ, complete truck, with transmission, just sitting here. Makes me think of doing it. But I really wouldn’t know where to start with it.
The fabrication, mechanical part is not what puts me off, but the computers talking, and making everything work. Not too mention, the trans I have is a little light for 250, it’s 4L65E. A bit of a hybrid. But, as far as mating an LQ to an E4od, I would have a clue how to get it all talking to each other, if you know what I mean. Or mating the transfer case to the 4l65. Or buy a used 4l80?. I kinda get lost in all that. How do you, or do you even have to, reprogram everything? I’m not sure if there is a programmer all ready set up for it, if it’s been done before??
I get lost in working through all the details in my mind.
did you work through all of that?
The fabrication, mechanical part is not what puts me off, but the computers talking, and making everything work. Not too mention, the trans I have is a little light for 250, it’s 4L65E. A bit of a hybrid. But, as far as mating an LQ to an E4od, I would have a clue how to get it all talking to each other, if you know what I mean. Or mating the transfer case to the 4l65. Or buy a used 4l80?. I kinda get lost in all that. How do you, or do you even have to, reprogram everything? I’m not sure if there is a programmer all ready set up for it, if it’s been done before??
I get lost in working through all the details in my mind.
did you work through all of that?