Engine Rebuild Issue
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 103
From: Jacksonville Florida
Goes back to blown torque sequence, a lot of good info though. Gasket thicknes was probably in specs. Oil in bolt holes could give you that bad torque #, on that one stud.
question now is when ya remove the heads? I guess until you do that we're all guessing.
question now is when ya remove the heads? I guess until you do that we're all guessing.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
Why in the world would you do that? Sounds like me not seating the braided oil hose STC fitting on the standpipe last week.
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Just a shot in the dark here. Besides all this good information, did you blow out each stud hole before installing the studs? Did you use a lot of oil or anything on the threads? You could have fluid in the block threads causing false torque values if you didn’t. (Edited)
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Negative! Poured oil over the valve train just before installing the valve covers.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 846
Likes: 34
(I replied to wrong thread before). So here is what I think. Hope you get thing sorted out soon. Would love to see pictures when you take thing apart. Send some measurements also.
I would use a straight edge to check the head and deck out. Below or equal to 2 thous is good. Lately, I read they relax it to 4 thous. Even more relax, they don't do end to end checking anymore. I do it anyway on mine.
Then put a new set of gasket and torque them correctly.
Once the hot cylinder gas breaches the gasket rubber seal, there is no more seal even you torque down again. So I don't know if there is any reason for guessing here.
As for why the torque was wrong, likely to be oil/lube in the thread. Because if you were careful, you would have went through one last time clicking everyone of then (without any turning).
I would use a straight edge to check the head and deck out. Below or equal to 2 thous is good. Lately, I read they relax it to 4 thous. Even more relax, they don't do end to end checking anymore. I do it anyway on mine.
Then put a new set of gasket and torque them correctly.
Once the hot cylinder gas breaches the gasket rubber seal, there is no more seal even you torque down again. So I don't know if there is any reason for guessing here.
As for why the torque was wrong, likely to be oil/lube in the thread. Because if you were careful, you would have went through one last time clicking everyone of then (without any turning).
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
(I replied to wrong thread before). So here is what I think. Hope you get thing sorted out soon. Would love to see pictures when you take thing apart. Send some measurements also.
I would use a straight edge to check the head and deck out. Below or equal to 2 thous is good. Lately, I read they relax it to 4 thous. Even more relax, they don't do end to end checking anymore. I do it anyway on mine.
Then put a new set of gasket and torque them correctly.
Once the hot cylinder gas breaches the gasket rubber seal, there is no more seal even you torque down again. So I don't know if there is any reason for guessing here.
As for why the torque was wrong, likely to be oil/lube in the thread. Because if you were careful, you would have went through one last time clicking everyone of then (without any turning).
I would use a straight edge to check the head and deck out. Below or equal to 2 thous is good. Lately, I read they relax it to 4 thous. Even more relax, they don't do end to end checking anymore. I do it anyway on mine.
Then put a new set of gasket and torque them correctly.
Once the hot cylinder gas breaches the gasket rubber seal, there is no more seal even you torque down again. So I don't know if there is any reason for guessing here.
As for why the torque was wrong, likely to be oil/lube in the thread. Because if you were careful, you would have went through one last time clicking everyone of then (without any turning).
New gaskets should arrive Friday and hopefully new torque wrench. Don't trust the one previously used.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,823
Likes: 3,103
From: Jersey Shore
One of the issues we all have with ARPs studs is the use of the very low friction lubricant. I'm not saying it should not be used. But along with applied tension, holding fasteners in place is also static friction, at the threads and the interface (nuts and washers). Its the static friction threshold we have to overcome to get a fastener in motion again. And it's half of the reason for typically not using grease or oil on lug nuts.
With the static friction reduced, you can have an easier time for things to loosen. If there was something else going on here too, it can be a confluence.
With the static friction reduced, you can have an easier time for things to loosen. If there was something else going on here too, it can be a confluence.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
I went 225 lb/ft on my ARP2000 studs both times and when I removed them last time I checked torque with the same wrench and none of them moved before it clicked. You have to be smooth and not jerk it when you torque them down.
This last time I torqued them down in sequence but went in 25 pound increments for a total of 10 cycles like we were discussing on my rebuild thread. In theory this should give a more even torque versus ARPs 3 step torque. Razzi ran the 225 lb/ft by ARP and they approved. This was at least the third time these studs have been used, they were on the engine when I bought it.
This last time I torqued them down in sequence but went in 25 pound increments for a total of 10 cycles like we were discussing on my rebuild thread. In theory this should give a more even torque versus ARPs 3 step torque. Razzi ran the 225 lb/ft by ARP and they approved. This was at least the third time these studs have been used, they were on the engine when I bought it.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,823
Likes: 3,103
From: Jersey Shore
At rest, its always static friction torque plus kinetic friction torque. You can drop the tension but you won't move. It's why rechecking a torque is mostly useless.
These should not more after the final torque. I'm just saying there is less static friction to keep them there.
These should not more after the final torque. I'm just saying there is less static friction to keep them there.
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
I went 225 lb/ft on my ARP2000 studs both times and when I removed them last time I checked torque with the same wrench and none of them moved before it clicked. You have to be smooth and not jerk it when you torque them down.
This last time I torqued them down in sequence but went in 25 pound increments for a total of 10 cycles like we were discussing on my rebuild thread. In theory this should give a more even torque versus ARPs 3 step torque. Razzi ran the 225 lb/ft by ARP and they approved. This was at least the third time these studs have been used, they were on the engine when I bought it.
This last time I torqued them down in sequence but went in 25 pound increments for a total of 10 cycles like we were discussing on my rebuild thread. In theory this should give a more even torque versus ARPs 3 step torque. Razzi ran the 225 lb/ft by ARP and they approved. This was at least the third time these studs have been used, they were on the engine when I bought it.
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
OK...…..I've been brain storming and replaying the build over and over in my head trying to figure out what went wrong, what did I do wrong. Been studying everyone's comments and nothing came to mind until reading ToManyToys post on static/kinetic friction torque. Got to thinking of anything that may have created extra tension during the torque sequence. The one thing I did against better judgement (listening to others) was torque the heads with the rockers and push rods in place! Is it possible that the extra tension from the valve springs and lifter caused incorrect torque values?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
OK...…..I've been brain storming and replaying the build over and over in my head trying to figure out what went wrong, what did I do wrong. Been studying everyone's comments and nothing came to mind until reading ToManyToys post on static/kinetic friction torque. Got to thinking of anything that may have created extra tension during the torque sequence. The one thing I did against better judgement (listening to others) was torque the heads with the rockers and push rods in place! Is it possible that the extra tension from the valve springs and lifter caused incorrect torque values?
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,823
Likes: 3,103
From: Jersey Shore
OK...…..I've been brain storming and replaying the build over and over in my head trying to figure out what went wrong, what did I do wrong. Been studying everyone's comments and nothing came to mind until reading ToManyToys post on static/kinetic friction torque. Got to thinking of anything that may have created extra tension during the torque sequence. The one thing I did against better judgement (listening to others) was torque the heads with the rockers and push rods in place! Is it possible that the extra tension from the valve springs and lifter caused incorrect torque values?
You may have just had one of those situations where you'll never find why.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
That's how it reads in the manuals. Without the pushrods and rockers in place, you would need to use the special tool to push down the valves to install the rockers and pushrods after torquing everything down.
You may have just had one of those situations where you'll never find why.
You may have just had one of those situations where you'll never find why.