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Y block pcv question

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Old Feb 12, 2020 | 11:44 PM
  #16  
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From: W (BY GOD) V
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Originally Posted by Nicxt44191

I have a 4v. I'm not huge on originality as far as the pcv is concerned.

My current fill cap is vented, but I may get a new one. Although it appears to be aftermarket, I'm sure it's never been serviced. I suppose I could also figure out how to service it......
Let me explain how FORD ENGINEERING designed the 4V PCV SYSTEM (292 CI).

The valley pan you have is correct and has the OEM separator (6A665) attached. That separator is a baffle that separates oil mist from the drawn air current. The air charge then goes though a cooling tube tube (6758) that further separates any fumes allowing any suspended vapors to drain down before entering the actual valve and possibly causing to to foul.

FORD also used a CARB SPACER w vacuum inlet (9A589) to ingest and distribute any vapor to all cylinders equally as to not load any one cylinder with excessive fumes.




 
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Old Feb 13, 2020 | 09:27 PM
  #17  
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I was told that stock Yblocks did not use PCV and are direct vent needing no negative pressure in the block. Good ring seal keeps low blow-by; Is this correct? If so, why add PCV?

BMC
 
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Old Feb 13, 2020 | 09:45 PM
  #18  
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Some Y Blocks did use a pcv system. The parts are listed in the MPC.

PCV is a more effective way to ventilate the crankcase, although I think it came about because of emissions requirements.
 
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Old Feb 13, 2020 | 11:23 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Red60
I was told that stock Yblocks did not use PCV and are direct vent needing no negative pressure in the block. Good ring seal keeps low blow-by; Is this correct? If so, why add PCV?

BMC
PCV systems were mandated by Cali for 1960 or 1961 IIRC.. Prior engines used draft tubes or just let the blow by gases vent out the oil fill cap.
The PCV system is one emission system that has all basically all positive attributes in carb'd applications. The blow by gasses from combustion contain moisture acids, and pile of good stuff when vented to atmosphere it is a big contributor to smog and contributes to really slick road surfaces during initial rainfall. With the crankcase being positively evacuated it helps keep moisture levels down (especially if the vehicle sees only short trips) and in turn and helped keep acid levels down and increased the oil's life span. This where the hyway miles on a vehicle made an actual difference in terms of engine lifespan.

Back in the day the sulphur content of gasoline was not controlled and one of the by-products of combustion with sulphur laced fuel is sulphur dioxide, when it is combined with moisture sulphuric acid is created, needless to say this was not good for your engine especially if the crankcase was not positively evacuated. The addition of the PCV system added considerably to the life span of the motor.
The creation of sulphur dioxide during combustion is also why exhaust systems and the such only lasted a couple of years or rear bumpers would rot out above the tailpipe back in the day. It had nothing to do with the materials used in their construction but the sulphur content in the fuel. Today the sulphur content of Gasoline and Diesel fuel is tightly controlled.

As for the Y block Adding a PCV system is pretty straight forward and can be done with modern bits with a minimal amount of fuss.
An under carb PCV plate will need to be sourced if the carb does not have a provision of a PCV inlet, there are lots of options available for this.
A Dorman PT#
42323 PCV grommet will fit in the hole in the intake valley pan to accept a PCV valve, a Motorcraft EV233 or equivalent PCV valve is a good choice for the Y block and does not over or under evacuate the crankcase at any RPM. I have never heard of any complaints of excessive oil consumption issues or oil loading in the intake from those that have done this conversion.

Below is a pic of such a set up



 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 06:55 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Nicxt44191

I have a 4v. I'm not huge on originality as far as the pcv is concerned. The adjustable one does look nice, but I don't know if I could justify the cost for a stock Y, in a cruiser pickup, that gets driven once weekly. There are some pcv part numbers floating around different threads that are more or less universal. I'll probably go that route.

My current fill cap is vented, but I may get a new one. Although it appears to be aftermarket, I'm sure it's never been serviced. I suppose I could also figure out how to service it...... I really appreciate everyone's help and knowledge.
First, on the filler cap. Buy quality, at least STANT.

If the system is plumbed without a separater of some sort, it will ingest oil vapors.You have the separater on your pan. Plumb from there. A valve placed directly in the pan will draw splash/vapors. It needs either some type of filtering below it or an air/oil separater.

Likely to ingest vapor -


Less likely to ingest vapor -


 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 06:59 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by hiball3985

I use this system on my Y's. The original mesh was deteriorated on both of them, don't know what the original material was made of. I was afraid of trying another type of material so I didn't use any.

My engine uses about a 1/2 quart between 3000 mile oil changes. I can't see any oil in the line, pcv valve or the intake when I've had the carb off so I'm not sure that is what is causing the problem.
No oil leakage? Any crankcase smoking after shut-down (may be hard to see with CLOSED SYSTEM)?

Put a vacuum gauge on the dipstick tube while running and see if there is a vacuum on the crankcase.

And of course, is the chosen valve flow-rate correct.
 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 09:29 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by KULTULZ
No oil leakage? Any crankcase smoking after shut-down (may be hard to see with CLOSED SYSTEM)?

Put a vacuum gauge on the dipstick tube while running and see if there is a vacuum on the crankcase.

And of course, is the chosen valve flow-rate correct.
Absolutely no crank case smoke after shut down and I pull the filler cap. Engine has about 9000 miles on it now. I've been over everything a dozen times. It may just be from the tiny little leak at the rear main, it leaves a smaller then a dime spot after sitting over night. Engine runs perfectly so I decided at my age I'm not going to loose any sleep over a 1/2 quart.
 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 09:45 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by hiball3985

Absolutely no crank case smoke after shut down and I pull the filler cap. Engine has about 9000 miles on it now. I've been over everything a dozen times. It may just be from the tiny little leak at the rear main, it leaves a smaller then a dime spot after sitting over night. Engine runs perfectly so I decided at my age I'm not going to loose any sleep over a 1/2 quart.
So there is your oil loss.

An ineffective CCV (Crankcase Ventilation System) whether ROAD DRAFT or PCV will allow excess crankcase pressure, which has to escape somewhere, usually through gaskets and seals. And once you have leak(s), outside air may be drawn into the crankcase throwing the fuel trim off.

Also, if there is excess crankcase pressure and the CCV can't handle it, guess where the pressure/fumes go in a CLOSED SYSTEM before possibly finding a leaking gasket/seal?

There is also an updated rear seal procedure to lessen the chance of a rear seal leak.

Have GOOD LUCK with it...
 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 12:34 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by KULTULZ
First, on the filler cap. Buy quality, at least STANT.

If the system is plumbed without a separater of some sort, it will ingest oil vapors.You have the separater on your pan. Plumb from there. A valve placed directly in the pan will draw splash/vapors. It needs either some type of filtering below it or an air/oil separater.

Likely to ingest vapor -


Less likely to ingest vapor -

Apparently you have not seen the inside of a Y block valley the chance of ingesting spash is zero and no amount of baffling is gong to stop vapour ingestion cause it is, well vapour, mist on the other hand... but then again on the Y block the intake valley is not really open to the crankcase so misting is not an issue either see below..

On factory installs, there is no baffling to stop vapour or mist, just a splash shield to prevent liquid ingestion. see below, There has never been any reason to try to mitigate the ingestion of oil vapour or mist in carb applications as there is no need too, the engine will happy ingest a bit of oil mist with no issues and since we are not running on the absolute ragged edge of performance like in a race car (that run just run a vented oil caps in most instances) the minuscule loss octane from a bit of blow by ingestion is of no consequnce on street engines.
Controlling oil vapour or misting ingestion is only a concern on engines with dry intakes and especially on DI applications where the whole intake system is dry, and this oil mist vapour can and does lead to loading up (coking) on the back of the intake valve and the inside of the intake.. But any vehicle with a carb has a nice wet intake that is continually washed down with fuel keeping things clean. As long you do not have excessive blow by and are not ingesting splash then you are good to go..









 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 03:31 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b

I believe I hear something mumbling, let me scan ...

... oh ...



 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 06:00 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by charliemccraney
Some Y Blocks did use a pcv system. The parts are listed in the MPC.

PCV is a more effective way to ventilate the crankcase, although I think it came about because of emissions requirements.
FWIW: For the most part, the earliest emissions device. But, my dad had several '52 GMC M135 6x6 military trucks. They had a 302 six, and were all sealed up for fording streams etc. This included a sealed distriubtor with screw-on ignition wires, a PVC system to seal of the crank case, and an air intake that could be re-routed into the cab so you'd know if things were getting "too deep". I imagine aircraft engines designed to work when inverted had some kind of sealed up crankcase as well, but we didn't have any of those on the farm, although some flew over from time to time! And we had a couple Y-blocks too, not a PCV in sight on those....

Good luck with it!
 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 06:56 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by KULTULZ
First, on the filler cap. Buy quality, at least STANT.

If the system is plumbed without a separater of some sort, it will ingest oil vapors.You have the separater on your pan. Plumb from there. A valve placed directly in the pan will draw splash/vapors. It needs either some type of filtering below it or an air/oil separater.
Less likely to ingest vapor -
Since I already have the adapter, I'll go ahead and use this system and plumb it into the manifold vacuum port on my edelbrock carb. Do you have a suggested part number for a pcv with two hose ends? All the ones I've been finding are for ones you'd stick in the grommet in the valley pan.
 
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Old Feb 14, 2020 | 11:44 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Nicxt44191
Since I already have the adapter, I'll go ahead and use this system and plumb it into the manifold vacuum port on my edelbrock carb. Do you have a suggested part number for a pcv with two hose ends? All the ones I've been finding are for ones you'd stick in the grommet in the valley pan.

Standard PT# V148 or V112 the V112 is a bit higher flow than the V148. Be sure to mount this valve upright it is not all position.
 
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Old Feb 15, 2020 | 08:39 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Nicxt44191

The adjustable one does look nice, but I don't know if I could justify the cost for a stock Y, in a cruiser pickup, that gets driven once weekly.
In defense of the ADJ PCV VALVE, it allows for the crankcase draw (and resultant fuel mixture balance) to be adjusted infinitely, especially useful on HP performance street engines. Its adjust-ability also allows for internal engine wear whereas the OEM valve could be overcome by vapor from a worn engine. It also beats having to try numerous valves to get a somewhat correct flow rate.

I see the no-need on your engine but it is a quality product - Dual Flow Adjustable PCV Valve ? M/E Wagner Performance Products
 
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Old Apr 11, 2020 | 11:31 AM
  #30  
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I had the thought to use an aftermarket oil filler cap with a pcv nipple on it running to the front pcv on my edelbrock carb. I notice at idle the oil filler cap is where the vapor and fumes come front most. you can see it. Any thoughts on this set up?


 
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