Urgent Advice! 2019 Engine Replace????!!!
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Nor Cal
Urgent Advice! 2019 Engine Replace????!!!
Bought 2019 Escape SE AWD over Labor Day. Was dealer car with 3500 miles on it. Wife loves it. BUT...besides the SYNC screen not working once in awhile the check engine light came on yesterday. Had an appointment at dealer to check on SYNC screen. Discovered coolant in engine. Only fix is REPLACE ENGINE. Seriously!!?? It has only been two months. I don't want a new car with an engine replacement! Do I have any recourse?? Any leverage to get a replacement car? Under warranty but still....come on...an engine replacement???!!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 107
From: Staten Island, NY
I don't know about California, but in New York, if that "dealer car" was ever titled then it couldn't be sold as a new car. It seems hard to believe that a customer demo would have 3500 miles on it, or did one of the salesmen slap dealer plates on it and drive it for a year? Some states also have laws about demo cars as well. There's a mileage limit even if never titled that if exceeded makes the first sale a used vehicle.
Regardless, you still have the factory warranty. You might have actually lucked out if the dealer wants to replace the engine rather than repair it under warranty. Would you really want an engine that was rebuilt in the dealership?
As far as a buyback goes, laws vary from state to state but you would probably need to show that the vehicle suffered from the same problem multiple times to get Ford's attention for a buy back. Check your state's lemon laws. You might try arguing that the dealer knew there was something wrong with the car when he sold it to you since the problem showed up so quickly after purchase, but good luck with that argument. It doesn't hurt to try. Get the Ford area office involved.
Regardless, you still have the factory warranty. You might have actually lucked out if the dealer wants to replace the engine rather than repair it under warranty. Would you really want an engine that was rebuilt in the dealership?
As far as a buyback goes, laws vary from state to state but you would probably need to show that the vehicle suffered from the same problem multiple times to get Ford's attention for a buy back. Check your state's lemon laws. You might try arguing that the dealer knew there was something wrong with the car when he sold it to you since the problem showed up so quickly after purchase, but good luck with that argument. It doesn't hurt to try. Get the Ford area office involved.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 54
From: Des Moines
Bought 2019 Escape SE AWD over Labor Day. Was dealer car with 3500 miles on it. Wife loves it. BUT...besides the SYNC screen not working once in awhile the check engine light came on yesterday. Had an appointment at dealer to check on SYNC screen. Discovered coolant in engine. Only fix is REPLACE ENGINE. Seriously!!?? It has only been two months. I don't want a new car with an engine replacement! Do I have any recourse?? Any leverage to get a replacement car? Under warranty but still....come on...an engine replacement???!!
Ford is replacing the engines with failed water pumps because there’s no way to know how much damage has been done. If they just replace the water pump, you may not even make it home and then they’ll have to replace the engine anyway.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 54
From: Des Moines
I’m a tech at an independent shop. A few months ago one of our customers wanted us to replace the water pump on a new-to-him Explorer with a 3.5 (can’t remember the exact year but it was less than 3-4 years old). When I found the labor was something like 9 hours I asked my boss why we were doing this if the pump is good and he told me about the issue and that the customer wanted to do it as preventative maintenance.
I’ve been meaning to read up on it a little more since then but haven’t had time.
I’ve been meaning to read up on it a little more since then but haven’t had time.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,779
Likes: 873
From: Foothills of NC
Ford decided to cheap out and put the pump inside the timing cover to save space and also save money by casting the mount into the block. It would have taken engineering time, space, and more money to mount the pump somewhere outside the engine. All of their sideways sitting 4 and 6 cylinder engines have this design. I have one in our 3.5 Edge. I knew this when I bought mine, so it's on me if I messed up.
I keep a close watch on the antifreeze tank, and also had the oil analyzed the last oil change as a test for water.
I would make sure you get a NEW engine and not a reman. You don't know who or how a reman was repaired. At your mileage and it being new, you SHOULD get new. I would settle for nothing less.
Not one of Fords better ideas.
I keep a close watch on the antifreeze tank, and also had the oil analyzed the last oil change as a test for water.
I would make sure you get a NEW engine and not a reman. You don't know who or how a reman was repaired. At your mileage and it being new, you SHOULD get new. I would settle for nothing less.
Not one of Fords better ideas.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 54
From: Des Moines
I think they tried to borrow it from Honda but decided using a timing belt instead of a chain was un-american. 
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,771
Likes: 80
From: tujunga, calif
Holy crap! What years and engines I'm freaked out? And what are they going to replace them with, the same thing that will fail again?
The wife has a 2016 1.4 Eco-boost with 25000 miles so far.
The wife has a 2016 1.4 Eco-boost with 25000 miles so far.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,541
Likes: 54
From: Des Moines
I’m not sure what year this started but I do know it’s the 3.5 and 3.7 V6 engines that are affected for sure. The water pumps are completely encased by the timing cover and driven off the timing chain - as a result the weep holes are also inside the timing cover, so when the bearing fails it drains coolant directly into the oil pan.I was looking at the WP removal procedure for your wife’s 1.6 (no 1.4 listed for the 2016 escape) and it doesn’t look like you have anything to worry about. The water pump is under the timing cover but the 1.6 is uses a timing belt not a chain and is still external to the engine. However I advise you to call/stop in to a Ford dealer with the VIN and double check. They are handling these warranty claims on a case by case basis (to the best of my knowledge) so if there is an issue, beginning documentation now can only benefit you.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,779
Likes: 873
From: Foothills of NC
The 3.5 in the Edge, Explorer, ect, that sit sideways, all have the internal water pump. From what I have read, they seem to last anywhere from 80k to 180k miles. At least from 2012 they revised the water pump with a double roller chain and heavier bearings. There is a small weep hole that exits behind the alternator, so if parking in a garage, a person should be able to catch early leakage, or if checking the antifreeze fill tank, there are distinct add and fill lines that can be used when the engine is cold to make sure no coolant is lost.
The real problem arises when driving and the main water pump bearing goes all at once. The first sign of this is a check engine light. By then it's too late.
The real problem arises when driving and the main water pump bearing goes all at once. The first sign of this is a check engine light. By then it's too late.
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 55
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DBGrif91, thanks for answering my question. I shouldn't have burdened the forum with something I could've looked up but the whole thing just freaked me out so I asked here. Thanks again for helping to allay my fears.
Steve
PS It never ceases to amaze me about the things car manufacturers do to save money and then use the consumer as their beta test group. I quit buying new cars back in the 80's when I became disenchanted at what was being churned out by manufacturers. I finally figured out that it was a better idea to buy a good high quality used car for the same or less money.
Steve
PS It never ceases to amaze me about the things car manufacturers do to save money and then use the consumer as their beta test group. I quit buying new cars back in the 80's when I became disenchanted at what was being churned out by manufacturers. I finally figured out that it was a better idea to buy a good high quality used car for the same or less money.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,771
Likes: 80
From: tujunga, calif
No. The water pump on your engine is on the opposite end from the timing chains. It is external to the engine and driven off a pulley mounted to the end of the exhaust camshaft on the front bank. It’s mounted just above the transmission.
All good questions. I’m not sure what year this started but I do know it’s the 3.5 and 3.7 V6 engines that are affected for sure. The water pumps are completely encased by the timing cover and driven off the timing chain - as a result the weep holes are also inside the timing cover, so when the bearing fails it drains coolant directly into the oil pan.
I was looking at the WP removal procedure for your wife’s 1.6 (no 1.4 listed for the 2016 escape) and it doesn’t look like you have anything to worry about. The water pump is under the timing cover but the 1.6 is uses a timing belt not a chain and is still external to the engine. However I advise you to call/stop in to a Ford dealer with the VIN and double check. They are handling these warranty claims on a case by case basis (to the best of my knowledge) so if there is an issue, beginning documentation now can only benefit you.
All good questions.
I’m not sure what year this started but I do know it’s the 3.5 and 3.7 V6 engines that are affected for sure. The water pumps are completely encased by the timing cover and driven off the timing chain - as a result the weep holes are also inside the timing cover, so when the bearing fails it drains coolant directly into the oil pan.I was looking at the WP removal procedure for your wife’s 1.6 (no 1.4 listed for the 2016 escape) and it doesn’t look like you have anything to worry about. The water pump is under the timing cover but the 1.6 is uses a timing belt not a chain and is still external to the engine. However I advise you to call/stop in to a Ford dealer with the VIN and double check. They are handling these warranty claims on a case by case basis (to the best of my knowledge) so if there is an issue, beginning documentation now can only benefit you.
My friends wife just bought a 2019 so I'll inform him. Is it the bearing that fails or a seal or both?