It bothers me
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 515
From: WNY
The new AAM connecting rod costs $42.94 while the older 6.7 that was manufactured by Mahle is $99.99. Both rods weigh the same and have
a different shape. The main bearings have a scuff coating but only on the bottom half. When I use coated bearings in my engines they are coated on both halves.
Ford must save a 10 or 15 cents there. TTY fasteners. These are just a few examples.
a different shape. The main bearings have a scuff coating but only on the bottom half. When I use coated bearings in my engines they are coated on both halves.
Ford must save a 10 or 15 cents there. TTY fasteners. These are just a few examples.
So it’s your opinion, without ever owning it, driving it, years of data owning one, or even dissecting an engine that you don’t have a clue about...except for videos that bother you. Do you have one on order? If not, then you should worry about something else.
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 391
Likes: 18
From: Calhan, CO
What!
Videos...
So it’s your opinion, without ever owning it, driving it, years of data owning one, or even dissecting an engine that you don’t have a clue about...except for videos that bother you. Do you have one on order? If not, then you should worry about something else.
So it’s your opinion, without ever owning it, driving it, years of data owning one, or even dissecting an engine that you don’t have a clue about...except for videos that bother you. Do you have one on order? If not, then you should worry about something else.
I thank everyone for taking the time to respond but some are taking this as a personal attack or me attacking Ford. My intention here is to have a discussion
about the cost/quality equation Ford is using. Nothing more. FYI. I have 7 racing engines in various stages of completion for my customers. (3 diesel) Some customers have
been with me for over 20 years. So I feel very comfortable discussing this topic. And it needs to be discussed because it would help us Ford owners understand some of the
things Ford does. Also, my original background is accounting so I enjoy the business side of the industry. Yes, accounting and engine building! lol
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 288
Likes: 38
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 515
From: WNY
Did you read the post before responding? I just gave you examples. Where's the opinion?
I thank everyone for taking the time to respond but some are taking this as a personal attack or me attacking Ford. My intention here is to have a discussion
about the cost/quality equation Ford is using. Nothing more. FYI. I have 7 racing engines in various stages of completion for my customers. (3 diesel) Some customers have
been with me for over 20 years. So I feel very comfortable discussing this topic. And it needs to be discussed because it would help us Ford owners understand some of the
things Ford does. Also, my original background is accounting so I enjoy the business side of the industry. Yes, accounting and engine building! lol
I thank everyone for taking the time to respond but some are taking this as a personal attack or me attacking Ford. My intention here is to have a discussion
about the cost/quality equation Ford is using. Nothing more. FYI. I have 7 racing engines in various stages of completion for my customers. (3 diesel) Some customers have
been with me for over 20 years. So I feel very comfortable discussing this topic. And it needs to be discussed because it would help us Ford owners understand some of the
things Ford does. Also, my original background is accounting so I enjoy the business side of the industry. Yes, accounting and engine building! lol
So now you’re the gen 3 expert. You lost me at “weight”..Opinion..Holds no water unless you have had the actual gen 3 parts in your hand which you have not. . It’s wind only, period.
And what is your point anyway? Don’t buy one.
The rest of us seem to be just fine with the warranty and the pedigree..
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 391
Likes: 18
From: Calhan, CO
Sorry
..
So now you’re the gen 3 expert. You lost me at “weight”..Opinion..Holds no water unless you have had the actual gen 3 parts in your hand which you have not. . It’s wind only, period.
And what is your point anyway? Don’t buy one.
The rest of us seem to be just fine with the warranty and the pedigree..
So now you’re the gen 3 expert. You lost me at “weight”..Opinion..Holds no water unless you have had the actual gen 3 parts in your hand which you have not. . It’s wind only, period.
And what is your point anyway? Don’t buy one.
The rest of us seem to be just fine with the warranty and the pedigree..
Let's have a civil discussion about the business side of things and maybe, just maybe, we can learn something about Fords philosophy and cost structure.
Or is that beyond the capability's of this board.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 515
From: WNY
Sorry, but I think I've stated things in a clear fashion already. I am trying to move beyond the old, "I love Ford" or "I hate Chevy" simple minded arguments.
Let's have a civil discussion about the business side of things and maybe, just maybe, we can learn something about Fords philosophy and cost structure.
Or is that beyond the capability's of this board.
Let's have a civil discussion about the business side of things and maybe, just maybe, we can learn something about Fords philosophy and cost structure.
Or is that beyond the capability's of this board.
I think you need to start by presenting facts with personal ownership experience first. You have done neither. Otherwise, the conversation you want to have is someone agreeing with your baseless negative opinion and speculation.
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Sick 'n Tired
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,969
Likes: 47
From: League City, TX
I think it's OK to start the discussion based on my past experiences regardless of whether anyone has parts in hand. If you don't care for the discussion no one is giving out participation grades so it's not required to comment. In any production endeavor there's a push/pull relationship with budget analysts and engineers. Sometime the pencil pushers win, sometimes the engineers. Only time and miles will tell. I do get concerned when I hear words synonymous with "Faster, Better, Cheaper"...the mantra we worked under during my 15 years with NASA.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 515
From: WNY
I think it's OK to start the discussion based on my past experiences regardless of whether anyone has parts in hand. If you don't care for the discussion no one is giving out participation grades so it's not required to comment. In any production endeavor there's a push/pull relationship with budget analysts and engineers. Sometime the pencil pushers win, sometimes the engineers. Only time and miles will tell. I do get concerned when I hear words synonymous with "Faster, Better, Cheaper"...the mantra we worked under during my 15 years with NASA.
Anyone got a scale?
Of course, NASA works strictly by conjecture and not fact.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 262
Likes: 8
Red I get what you are saying their are certain words that just don't go well together when you are a bean counter or engineer or engine builder . When some of the specs were released on new 10 speed I said the same thing 4 more gears and the weight only increased a few pounds over the 6spd .On the other hand maybe the 6 speed had a lot of unnecessary weight . I am sure Ford beat the 10spd trans to death and then beat it some more ,Time will tell . As an engine builder we always want parts that will handle any thing that we throw at them , 500hp motor we want a reciprocating assy that will handle 1000hp , but the bean counters say some thing different. Everything is always a compromise . As for the up grades to the 6.7 they will be fine I am sure they were beat to hell and back.As long as we stay with in the parameters of which they were designed the 6.7 will be fine. But just like anything else real world use will be the ultimate test .
If they are cutting cost why is it not reflected in the price lol!
If they are cutting cost why is it not reflected in the price lol!
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 391
Likes: 18
From: Calhan, CO
Piston Pin
Red I get what you are saying their are certain words that just don't go well together when you are a bean counter or engineer or engine builder . When some of the specs were released on new 10 speed I said the same thing 4 more gears and the weight only increased a few pounds over the 6spd .On the other hand maybe the 6 speed had a lot of unnecessary weight . I am sure Ford beat the 10spd trans to death and then beat it some more ,Time will tell . As an engine builder we always want parts that will handle any thing that we throw at them , 500hp motor we want a reciprocating assy that will handle 1000hp , but the bean counters say some thing different. Everything is always a compromise . As for the up grades to the 6.7 they will be fine I am sure they were beat to hell and back.As long as we stay with in the parameters of which they were designed the 6.7 will be fine. But just like anything else real world use will be the ultimate test .
If they are cutting cost why is it not reflected in the price lol!
If they are cutting cost why is it not reflected in the price lol!
Sick 'n Tired
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,969
Likes: 47
From: League City, TX
As far as the "conjecture and not fact" comment, you completely missed the point I was making. It had nothing to do with working based on conjecture or fact but an overall engineering philosophy that drives development. The words pointed out in the first post point to an engineering philosophy and therefore could (hence the discussion) lead to certain outcomes that are counter to what their intended consumer segment expects. Again...up for discussion.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 515
From: WNY
Using the piston pin as an example. Up until 2017, 34mm was enough to get the done. Then the power increased and the pin went up to 35mm. So was 34mm "just enough" to get by? Or the RPM where max torque occurred increased from 1600 to 1800 because the bottom end was again, just strong enough to get by? It's those seemingly insignificant things that are at the core of my discussion. For the amount of money demanded, I think the engine and trans should be better built than they are.
Either way, unless you have a “control” in your hand to compare actual stress numbers of certain parts, you are just wanting to talk..
Do you also feel Ford is the only business in the world that is fiscally prudent and survives by making its stockholders and employees a decent return?
It is what it is, and it’s pretty good, considering that Ford has led truck sales for 40 some years...
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