Hello, everyone, I purchased a 2004 F250 with the 6.0L it has 175000 mi I bought it primarily because relatively speaking the body is in great shape, however it is starting to show the signs that have plagued the 6.0. I fully intend on keeping this truck for years so my question is this, given the mileage what are the thoughts on a complete bullet proof or a complete swap? I am not so much comparing the cost as I want to make sure that if I do a swap I wont have the same problems again in a new motor or reman, thanks in advance for your input.

 

Specifically, what signs is it showing?
What do you mean by a "complete bulletproof"? There isn't a common definition for "bulletproofing" and it various by model year IMO.
What 2004 do you have - early or late?
What are your expectations of the truck (miles driven per year, extensive towing or not, extensive idling or not, can you afford occasional downtime for repairs, etc)

 

Head gaskets visibly leaking, intermittent heat, mfg date 03/04, I dont expect to do any extensive hauling, I do not want lo have layed up for repairs, I am looking for piece of mind more than anything, the term bulletproof you are referring to does seem to vary widely , it seems to range in price from $4k to $10k. but as to the extent should I go that route I will defer to a professional. My point is I want it done once, if thats possible.

 

Swap will have problems soon or later, unless you are lucky.
So address the problems. How you address them, some call it bullet proof.
But it is your decision and ask question for each fix.
If addressing head gasket, I would put studs on them, arp while they are at it.

 

Probably the most important thing to get first is a monitoring system. Monitoring the coolant and oil temperatures, as well as system voltage and a few other parameters will help you catch problems before they get expensive.

When you get a monitoring system, you can watch coolant and oil temperatures and determine if your oil cooler is plugged. This is a common issue, especially if you still have the Ford Gold coolant. If the oil temperature is more than 15 degrees above the coolant temperature, you will need a new oil cooler. You may or may not need a chemical flush of the coolant system and you should plan on going with an EC-1 rated ELC coolant. If the coolant system is dirty, flushing it BEFORE installing a new oil cooler is important.

Watching system voltage is important. The 6.0L doesn't do well w/ bad batteries and a weak alternator. A lot of people like to upgrade to at least 140 amp and maybe even a 190 amp alternator. Charging and individually load testing the batteries is a must IMO. The FICM is prone to failure if system voltage gets low for very long. Having the FICM upgraded by FICMrepair.com is a nice thing to do for reliability. That said, it is an easy swap at anytime in the future if it gives you problems. The key thing to do is have the monitoring system so you can identify FICM problems if they develop (watch FICM MPower, LPower and VPower)!

Adding a fuel pressure gauge is VERY important IMO. You need to add a sensor as well as a gauge for that and it can cost around $200, depending on your choice of equipment.

With your build date, it is a late 2004. It will have the wavy oil rails which means you have dummy plugs in the rails.

If the dummy plugs and standpipes are still original, you will want to have them updated.

You also may want to include the fuel pressure regulator spring update. The original regulator spring is typically not strong enough and many people are running on low fuel pressure. Fuel pressure below 50 psi can lead to injector damage.

The late '04 model year also has the weaker EGR cooler. In a "bulletproof" job, you might include an EGR delete. If you want to keep the EGR system, then you will want to install an EGR cooler from Bullet Proof Diesel. They have a VERY reliable EGR cooler.

Then you need to decide if you want to upgrade the HPOP while everything is apart. The OEM HPOP is not really the most reliable piece of equipment. IMO the best choice (although it is expensive) is an upgraded HPOP from dieselsite. You really don't need their high capacity HPOP unless you plan on larger injectors,

I assume that your injectors are still good, but maybe at a minimum plan on "re-ringing" them (new o-rings).

As far as head studs go, I believe that they are a necessary item for a "bulletproof" job. To add to that, you need to decide if you are going to keep the heads and have them checked for flatness and machined if necessary. An option would be to install new o-ringed heads. KillDevil heads are nice, but an extra $2000. With the new o-ringed heads and ARP head studs, you shouldn't have to worry about head gasket leaks in the future.

The turbo may or may not need attention. Often times it is good to remove it and clean up the VGT vanes and unison ring. If a new turbo is ever needed, I highly recommend KCturbo.

Lastly, remember that you have some miles on it. There are always things w/ suspension ( ball joints, shocks, etc) and steering components (tie rods, drag links, etc) that may need attention. One thing that is usually not on peoples "radar" is the cab mount bushings and "bump stops". They are easy to replace w/ the cab off.

Of course a number of the items may be optional and will certainly depend on what you want for reliability!

 

I guess it depends on who would be doing the "bulletproofing". Will it be you? Will it be a shop? Do you know a shop that is experienced and profecient in 6.0 Engine work? Plan to spend 4-6K on a quality job.
If all this concerns you and you want a more straight forward way out of the bulletproofing process then yes a replacement engine is an option. But you still have to consider what you are going to do about injectors, and at 175K it might be time. Figure about 6.5K for an engine plus labor to install it.

 

Nice post. You are spot on. The choice of "who does the work" is probably the most critical aspect!

Also very critical is your choice of parts. If you install a new oil cooler, then the OEM oil cooler is the choice unless you want to go with an air-to-oil cooler from Bullet Proof Diesel. Also critical is your choice of injectors. If you are going to get new injectors, then the OEM remans or the new ones from Pure Power are the best choices (assuming you are staying stock).

A good place to buy OEM parts is AutoNation White Bear Lake (on line ordering) or from FICMrepair.com.

If any sensors are needed, then stick w/ OEM.

 

Thank you all very much you have confirmed a lot of my thoughts. I will be having a very reputable diesel shop that has done this many many times do the work and thanks.

 

Here'sa link to what bulletproofing means (from the people at BPD who coined the term):

https://www.bulletproofdiesel.com/Articles.asp?ID=345

You don't have to do everything at once (it does get expensive!), you can address things as you start to see symptoms...

As Bismic recommended, monitoring is key to identifying and fixing issues before they become catastrophic.

If you have leaking head gaskets, do the ARP studs while they have the heads off, 'it only costs a little more' (relatively speaking).

Using an app like Torque Pro on an Android tablet or FORscan on a Windows laptop, you can look at info like injector misses, as well as do your monitoring while you drive.

Good luck with your decision!

 

I guess when you buy all those parts they guarantee the engine for life?

 

Just the parts (depending on who you bought them from ;-)

 

Soooo, it ain't no bulletproof engine.


I just have an issue with the use of that term, it has led many down the path of sorrow.

 

bullet proof, dealer proof, gorilla proof .........

I would hope that most people would understand that the reliability of an aging internal combustion engine is not completely predictable!

While I am among the stronger supporters of the 6.0L, I am not expecting anything more than 300k to 350k. By the time I get that high, it will probably be hard to find parts ... just like it is for my 1997 HD F250 that has 300k on it.

In the early days, plenty of people said it would "blow up" at 75k miles, then 100k miles, then 150k, etc. Eventually it will and I will still feel good about the reliability that I have experienced (at 218k - original injectors, original HPOP, never had an oil cooler failure or an EGR cooler failure, never had a plugged up coolant system). Maybe just lucky, but I am certainly not alone.

I guess what I am saying is that even if you only get 300k out of it with the "bulletproofing option" (and totally agree on the frustration w/ the terminology), would it really be a bad investment? Really depends on an owner's perspective. Even a rebuilt motor might not have all the weak points addressed.

 

Being broke, and using my trucks to make a meager, high-mileage living, it's always about the money to me. Hopefully, you didn't get taken too bad on the purchase price, if so, in MY WORLD, you'd never come out ahead on the dollars v. value. But, maybe you're a low-mileage, around town kind of guy, who just wants the consistent funnel of luscious babes attracted to your manly PowerStroke, in which case, you've made a great investment!

IMHO, your first task is to confirm the integrity of the block - is it worthy of the bullet proof expense? You might touch base with Torreador Diesel (one of the mods here) and ask him to look at your cylinders with his IDS (Ford diagnostic software). He works on these trucks out of his house as a side business and likes to help the FTE brotherhood. (not offering his services for free, but he's a good man).

I'd also suggest that you have a third, cheaper option - swapping in a used engine. Prolly not what you want, but for other readers of this thread considering these issues, it should be mentioned. Main problem: it takes time. Your best bet is to monitor the auctions for a low-mileage wrecked truck. It's, obviously, harder every month to find 6.0s with less than 100k, but they're still some out there. Of course, it's a roll of the dice, but the odds are well in your favor that any 13-17 year old truck with less than 100k was probably some guy's "baby" and well taken care of. Depending on the wreck, I've see trucks with good engines go for a couple of thousand dollars (I bought one, spent $2000 on it and sold it for $10000 to guy who was happy to have it).

Just sayin'.

 

Totally agree on thorough diagnostics being needed. Visible signs of head gasket leaks doesn't tell us much as most head gasket leaks over pressure the degas bottle (but so do other things). Same w/ intermittent heat. It could be due to one of several things.

First thing to do IMO is run a thorough scan for codes. Downloading ForScan Lite to a smartphone, along w/ the proper ELM327 OBDII adapter, would accomplish that AND serve as a good monitor.

Then, with your engine monitoring device, I would want to know the coolant and oil temperature differential (when fully heated up and running at highway speed). This is the oil cooler test.

Then I would want to verify that the coolant system (including the degas bottle and cap) would hold pressure (no leaks), and then would want to do the testing to see if the degas bottle will over-pressure when under load.