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My plan is to order a 2020 F450 probably a KR or Platinum long bed Crew cab 4X4 . Since we don't have 2020 specs I have looked at some 19 model tucks on the lot in the same trims I will be buying . They seem to be in the #4600 range in payload depending on options . The dealer said Ford uses 15% in their calculations to figure pin weight . The 5th wheel I'm looking at is estimated to be # 21,800 UVW with a #4360 pin weight at 20% of UVW that the RV dealer used when asked about it . Using Fords numbers it would be #3270 of the estimated UVW .The max GVWR of the 5th wheel is estimated at #26,500 . Which percent should be used 15% , 20% or 25% for calculating pin weight and what number should you use UVW or GVWR to figure this with . I don't think we would ever put #4700 of cargo on the 5th wheel but depending on which 5th wheel numbers you use UVW or GVWR it sure eats up the payload capacity of the truck . We can always go down on size of the 5th wheel and shave some weight . We are looking at a 40 foot but can shave estimated #475 per foot if we reduce the length . To me I would think you would use GVWR to figure pin weight since you wouldn't be traveling with it empty . Any help will be appreciated .
All three are towing calculators you can use to play around and get different estimates.
But, in general, you want to take 25% of GVWR to figure out the maximum you 'might' have in your fifth wheel. In all likelihood, you're not going to have that, but just in case you do, that's how you determine the maximum possible limits.
Getting a closer estimate on your probable pin weight is going to be more a function of each trailer's design, how much stuff you're loading, where it's loaded, etc. And then doing a lot of math based on the understandings of fulcrums, levers and forces. Like, if you throw 1000 lbs directly over the trailer's axles, almost nothing will change in the pin weight, but you put that same 1000's in the front of the trailer, it'll all be added to the pin weight. About 1/2 way between the two, and about 1/2 (though, not exactly 1/2) would be on the pin. You take a toy hauler and put all 1000 lbs in the garage, you've just made the pin lighter than it's UVW pin weight....
So, really, it all depends, that's why it's safer to take the maximum possible, and as long as you're within those limits, ideally, unless you've overloaded, you should be within limits with what you have loaded, with a bit of cushioning and wiggle room.
A fifth wheel needs a minimum 20% of its actual weight on the pin - this is for stability while towing it down the highway. Actual pin weight will always exceed the manufacturers on the lot spec number.
Figure 25% of its gross maximum to determine if your truck is capable. 26,500 is a tremendous fifth load; 25% of that is 6625 pounds (significantly over your provided numbers). A terrible mismatch!
I'm surprised by those F450 numbers, here's my (dually F350) weight sticker (5352 pounds):
Here is a screenshot of my file I use to calculate loads. Trailer GVWR is 12000 it is 11910 on the tires PLUS 2130 on the pin. This is full of fresh water ant 4 motorcycles in the back.
The 350's have more payload because the trucks are lighter due to smaller brakes ,tires and axles . I can go down in trim level on the 450 and gain a few extra pounds of payload but it wouldn't be enough . I'll have to try and trim down the trailer build to get closer to the truck capacities . The trailers we are looking at are triple axle unless we go below 38 feet if that matters on the pin weight calculations . They also put the generator behind the axles to save on the pin weight .
Ford uses 15%, which is the number fifth wheel manufacturers use for balancing their weight on an fifth wheel, when it goes out of their door, and that is in fact the only true number the fifth wheel manufacturer can provide. They do this in the knowledge that you will add load and most of it in the front, because that's where most of the storage is. They shoot for 20%, as Army_ret said, but maybe you can go up to 25% before you're most likely exceeding GVWR or crack the frame. A full timer will have more stuff packed than a weekender. Load more in the back, and you will lift weight from the pin.
You cannot calculate your pin weight by a simple GVWR times x% formula, as it only gives you an estimate. You'll need something more sophisticated like brandon_oma shows. Once you've been on the CAT scale, you'll know more and what your percentage will be.
I'm curious what trailer you are looking at that has those kind of weight numbers? I've got a Momentum 394M with a GVWR of 20K lbs and I thought it was one of the heavier ones out there.....but 26,500 lbs.....WOW!
I'm curious what trailer you are looking at that has those kind of weight numbers? I've got a Momentum 394M with a GVWR of 20K lbs and I thought it was one of the heavier ones out there.....but 26,500 lbs.....WOW!
We are looking at New Horizon , they build their own frames , will customize floor plans and add just about any finish or option you can think of .Several owners have 450's and seem to do ok , many have 550 with hauler beds and a lot of them have semi looking tow trucks . I'm just trying to stay as close to the capacity limits as I can . We are looking at the Majestic , they have a step down that is still better quality than most RV's and lighter called the Summit . You can still pick finishes and option's but are more limited than in the Majestic .
Provided your 4600 pound cargo allowance is correct then the maximum pin load that F450 vehicle is rated for has a gross of 18,400 pounds; and that wouldn't allow you any additional weight such as yourself, a 200# hitch and your tools/ baggage.
18,400 X 25% = 4600 pounds. Your proposed fifth will need some extreme dieting to meet/ beat that number.
I'd suggest you instead shop for a vehicle (class 7?) that's fully capable of carrying precious cargo (you, your family, pets) in addition to the attached 26,500# load).
Been around a lot of big long heavy 5th wheels and 20% is a solid figure when figuring pin weight, I've never seen one with 25% on a larger trailer mostly because the forward frame wouldn't take it. You are looking at a top of the line trailer that is very well built on a heavy frame with triple axles, triple axles because they spread the weight over more of the frame trend to have less pin weight. I would be more concerned with the CGWR with the truck and trailer than the pin weight.
A 5th wheel that weighs 21,800 lbs unloaded? I would like to see a link to that beast, I wasn't aware that they made them that big.
Look on on the New Horizon website and you will see many of them . I believe they build up to 48 feet that would be way over what we are looking at , They are all built four season and are very sturdy.
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