Clutch - under dash access HELP!
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2016
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Clutch - under dash access HELP!
91 F250 7.3NA
Went to take the truck out this morning, got about 3/4mi away from home to the 1st stop sign before the highway (side roads). Went to take off and the clutch pedal just went straight to the floor. Had to start it in 2nd gear otherwise 1st would've taken forever to get back. Grabbed alternate transportation. Got home and had another in the household work pedal (requiring manually lifting it) so I could check reaction at the master cyl. Fluid level doesn't change. Still full. Slave cyl when pedal depressed has VERY little movement...barely noticeable w/o putting hand on arm. This tells me its up under the dash more than likely. Now given enough time to sit the clutch acts normal for only 1 depress.
I know where to start looking but it's the getting there. There's no connection to the master BELOW the pedal pivot like any sane connection would be...it just has to be ABOVE! To get access to where the rod connects to the pedal...how? It looks like I have to drop the steering wheel???
Went to take the truck out this morning, got about 3/4mi away from home to the 1st stop sign before the highway (side roads). Went to take off and the clutch pedal just went straight to the floor. Had to start it in 2nd gear otherwise 1st would've taken forever to get back. Grabbed alternate transportation. Got home and had another in the household work pedal (requiring manually lifting it) so I could check reaction at the master cyl. Fluid level doesn't change. Still full. Slave cyl when pedal depressed has VERY little movement...barely noticeable w/o putting hand on arm. This tells me its up under the dash more than likely. Now given enough time to sit the clutch acts normal for only 1 depress.
I know where to start looking but it's the getting there. There's no connection to the master BELOW the pedal pivot like any sane connection would be...it just has to be ABOVE! To get access to where the rod connects to the pedal...how? It looks like I have to drop the steering wheel???
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,455
Likes: 5,526
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
climb into the truck with your head on the floor looking up under the dash with a flashlight. you will see the clutch pushrod going from pedal to master cylinder. you will also know rite away if it is still connected to the arm or not when moving the pedal.
the pushrod sometimes breaks rite where it connects to the pedal.
but by your description, it sounds to me like your clutch master cylinder has failed.
the pushrod sometimes breaks rite where it connects to the pedal.
but by your description, it sounds to me like your clutch master cylinder has failed.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Likes: 15
So if the master failed the pedal will stay down? Though given time to sit the pedal working only once...would make sense that the master failed. But wouldn't the return spring pull the pedalt back up since it's a fairly beefy thing?
EDIT: Okay found where the rod is. Am so used to the connection being directly AT the pedal. The bushing where the rod goes onto the pedal is all slop which MIGHT be causing the binding or the return spring has lost its adjustment...if it were easy to get to I'd adjust it. My master cyl is an ungodly plastic thing with a plastic line connection. So it's reasonably certain this is what failed?
EDIT: Okay found where the rod is. Am so used to the connection being directly AT the pedal. The bushing where the rod goes onto the pedal is all slop which MIGHT be causing the binding or the return spring has lost its adjustment...if it were easy to get to I'd adjust it. My master cyl is an ungodly plastic thing with a plastic line connection. So it's reasonably certain this is what failed?
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,455
Likes: 5,526
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
must likely. i have seen many fail like that.
you can try replacing hte bushing, but i doubt it is going to work.
the symptoms you described are classic bad master cylinder.
it is also best to replace master and slave cylinder at the same time, because they are a royal pain in the asterisk to bleed.
you can try replacing hte bushing, but i doubt it is going to work.
the symptoms you described are classic bad master cylinder.
it is also best to replace master and slave cylinder at the same time, because they are a royal pain in the asterisk to bleed.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Likes: 15
Picked up both of them. Will tangle with them after it cools off a bit outside. If there is room to feed the slave down through the engine and IF I can remove the engine bay and IF I can get the hyd line free I'll try bleeding the duo out of vehicle then slave down.
I looked up the steps for a proper-ish bleed....whoever came up with the system for these needs some serious unpleasantness sent their way. Whatever happened to good ole line nuts going into all metal master//slave where the latter has a bleed screw?
UPDATE: Got the master unbolted...I need to trim off some of the mat//insulation since I had a helluva time getting the top nut. Then was fidgeting with the clutch switch. If I knew for sure what to do to what wires I'd just bypass the thing. All my active drivers are stick and by habit I either put them in N or depress clutch anyway when starting.
Now...HOW TO REMOVE the roll pins? Don't recall the last time I dealt with the little buggers or how I got them out before on whatever it was I was working on that had them.
I looked up the steps for a proper-ish bleed....whoever came up with the system for these needs some serious unpleasantness sent their way. Whatever happened to good ole line nuts going into all metal master//slave where the latter has a bleed screw?
UPDATE: Got the master unbolted...I need to trim off some of the mat//insulation since I had a helluva time getting the top nut. Then was fidgeting with the clutch switch. If I knew for sure what to do to what wires I'd just bypass the thing. All my active drivers are stick and by habit I either put them in N or depress clutch anyway when starting.
Now...HOW TO REMOVE the roll pins? Don't recall the last time I dealt with the little buggers or how I got them out before on whatever it was I was working on that had them.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,455
Likes: 5,526
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
i agree on the bleeding sequence being a pain, and the designer of that system needing to be covered with honey and staked over a fire ants nest.
the only way to work on these things anymore is if you are a midget, with itty bitty hands.
the only way to work on these things anymore is if you are a midget, with itty bitty hands.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Likes: 15
Unfortunately small hands is not what I have. They' would have proven useful more than once. Would certainly be less likely to get hand cramps when having to manipulate small stuff...anything smaller around than my thumbs anymore. Any gloves I use MUST be XL sized. Found elsewhere some some used Allen wrenches that were the same size as the pins...now to hopefully NOT stab myself in the hand with one.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 210
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It's in. Got around the whole bleeding process itself by filling the new (metal) master. Manually operating the new slave (installed) while crawling back out to check the fluid in the master. About a half dozen or so times of back and forth with some pedal pumping and its in working order. Still got some air in it since pedal doesn't have resistance until about 1/2...which was about what it had before the master went. Test drove and it worked well enough to shift before takeoff and while going through the gears. Remaining air will get out of the system on its own at this point from usage.
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