Swapped a manual into my truck with a 400ci and np435 combo and ive had starter issues ever since.
The OE style starter worked flawlessly but ran into heat soak issues so i went with a PMGR starter and this is when my issue arose.

What i have done to try to remedy this in order:
Replace PMGR starter with another
Replace with automatic trans starter
Replace with automatic 460 starter for 93 F250 (read this would work)
Replace with manual 460 starter for 93 F250 (This worked for about 5 starts and sounded perfect)

Then I got stuck in a parking lot luckily close to home because it wouldnt engage anymore

Pulled starter out inspected both ring gear and starter gear, both looked fine (ring gear looked very lightly worn on the very tip of the tooth where it is cut at a taper looking straight down the tooth.
replaced battery with something bigger hoping this would work but thinking it wouldnt....it didnt
replaced Negative cable due to corrosion (positive had already been replaced)
ran a "jumper" wire from battery to solenoid on starter to bypass ignition switch
Verified with the flywheel company that my flywheel was installed in the right orientation
Also have bench tested every single starter i have put in and have re verified the current start works aswell.

Due to the witness marks on both the previous starter with chipped teeth and my ring gear, it looks as if the starter is not engaging far enough into the ring gear

my neighbor suggested the trans plate between engine and trans my be too thick. Does anyone have an OEM one they could measure? I did have to install a new remanned one when i did my manual swap.

My questions:
What is the thickness of the OEM trans plate?
Does anyone else have another solution to my issue?
Where can i find start parts, as i may build/modify my starter to see if i can get it to work.

Thank you

 

I think you've found the problem. I can measure one for you tomorrow. There is really no "thickness" to them at all. Thin sheet of steel used to locate the starter. And as you know the automatic and manual are different.

Seems someone else had this same issue awhile back. Not sure if on this forum or not but I think the block plate they were using was from JBG.

 

With the most recent starter having worked so well at first, what are the chances it's just gone bad on you? Seems to happen a lot with newer parts these days, and follows the same trend of working well then failing. Very common with the fender mounted starter relay, but also starters.
Might be the same issue with the other starters having made noise or not worked properly. Just not made well and you could tell by the sound they made.

Anyway, good luck with the block plate thing. I read about the 460 starters too just recently. Seemed to fix the last guy's issue (or was that you?).

Paul

 

I dont think the starter i have is bad since a bench test, it works perfectly plus it is only 3 weeks old and everything looks fine.
I have to get under the truck again and look at how thick that plate is. I dont think this would be big enough of an issue to completely mess up my starter. Lets say it was 1/8" too thick the ring gear teeth are probably 1/2" thick it would still have 3/8 to bite into.
Maybe i should just try to get another starter and put it in there to see what happens

 

So reading through more forums, someone mentioned the ground from the engine to the body. I know mine is cut in half when we did meshed up the bellhousing it got pinched.

Would the lack of this ground cause the starter to not engage fully? I still have a ground from the battery to the engine block though which i thought would be enough

 

Is the new starter engaging the ring gear initially and then with every subsequent start cycle it starts to grind or becomes locked against the ring gear?? Im trying to imagine the scenario, but if it is this I had a similar issue when I went through my engine and drivetrain. I replaced the old starter with a new unit from Orielly's, truck would start fine and would do so for about 10 or so start cycles, then it became kinda grindy which lead to full on starter grinding the ring gear with no engine turnover. I replaced the starter again with the same outcome. I did some digging and found that if I swapped the Bendix drive for a unit with one less tooth it seemed to cure the issue....2 years later all is Bueno. I checked your ring gear and it is a 180 tooth my I6/np435 combo is a 164 tooth. You may want to look into the Bendix drive

 

Did you check the bell housing alignment to crank with a dial gage ?

 

I did not check bell housing to crank alignment. Im also unsure how you do this. It slides on with locating dowels so i assumed it would self locate.

As far as tooth count on the bendix, where do i get a drive gear with a dofferent number of teeth. I have not been able to find a retailer that sells starter parts only starters themselves

 

As far as installing a starter and it working out of the box, i have only had one do this and after a few starts it started to grind without turning the engine over. So it is hard to say if a new starter will do that again. Going to go to the store today and get a replacement. Ill come back with more info.

 

I had to do some info searching both here and on the googles, that's where I found out about the Bendix drive swap. I think the recommendation was for a swap to a ford escort 1.9L, this worked for my scenario and I do not recommend going out and swapping your starter drive based on my scenario. Do some digging see if anyone has run into a similar situation. Bendix or starter drives can be had at most auto parts stores. Also make sure you know your tooth count on the ring gear, I based the 180 tooth count off of rockauto for your engine/trans setup. Actually getting under the truck and confirming would be best.

 

Check the drive in the starter, if it has any slop at all it will give you that issue. Do not trust that it is new or rebuilt. I just had a similar problem on my 1979 f250 with a 351m. I put a newly rebuilt starter on it less than 6000 miles ago, started having issues with the starter not engaging properly, intermittently. I heard the rebuilder uses cheap starter drives. When I pulled the starter last weekend, the drive was sloppy as well as the nose bushings. Installed another starter, my issue has gone away. When the old starter gets rebuilt this time , I will put an original Motorcraft drive in it.

 

So i did some more trails today. I checked my starter for slop and there was minimal, not enough yo talk about but de ided to warranty it anyways. The knew one has zero slop. Installed the starter and the first key turn it sounded good but the battery was too dead to stay engaged. I pulled my car arou d and put the jumpers on it. Then it sounded not the best. I got the multimeter out and measure 13.4V and then 8-10V while cranking which seems low. I figured maybe since my car is a 4 banger it cant charge it enough for a higher conpression v8. I borrow a charger from work and put it to the jump mode. I was now at 16v and 14.1V while cranking. Now the starter is just free spinning with zero grinding or if it is grinding not audible.

Doing some research i read that the block plate may align the starter. My plate looks to be a bit concave and bows in towards the bellhousing although all the bolts are tight holding the bell housing onto the block. Any insight on this?

Also looking for a starter cone with a longer throw. Any idea where i can fing starter cones on the web? I can only find interal parts!

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-issues-2.html

 

Not sure what the link was for i read through a bunch of it but it didnt seem like that was much help. Although i appreciate it.

Honestly might have to pull the engine to figure this one out not sure what else to try. I literally just tried changing the bolts to see if thatll help which obviously it didnt

 

Hi Kyle,
While running a 460 amd a t19 i couldn't keep a starter in it. After the auto parts store manager tried to telle the life time warrante wouldn't apply after the next stater. After my 3rd starter i looked at the starter nose depth comparing automatic vs manual. The automatic starter nose was longer. So i tried it better but not where i needed it.
The starter mount bolt holes where warn to say the least. I took a brass key folded it over and slid it between the starter and the bellhousing while prying with a flat screwdriver towards the fly wheel. Then jamed the folded key into the gap and tightening the starter bolts.
To my surprise it worked like a charm. Years later same starter.
I hope my experience helps but if it dosent i wish you the best of luck.