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just exactly what Alternator and Regulator do you have ?
-I don't know the brand. Simple 3-wire 65amp altenator. About 2 years old; less than 500 miles. The regulator came with the truck. Possibly original to the truck.
Originally Posted by lonewolf_
probably crappy Jumper cables or hooked up backwards.... also if the cable connections are not good and Clean and you have a Flat battery the current draw can cause the cables to fry.... IF you had a short that was destroying Jumper cables then I'm pretty sure it would Blow Battery cables or battery too.
-I am usually very careful about connecting my jumper cables. It was last week, and now I don't remember. I suppose best case scenario is that I connected them wrong and need a diode to stop the backfeed, then everything should work. My luck is not that good. Battery was about the same as the alternator, 2 years old; less than 500 miles.
P.S.-The battery did fry. It was bad and needed to be replaced. Probably because of whatever fried the jumper cables.
ok the reason I was asking is to try discover IF there was a combination of ALT/Regulator that could be causing this issue, I don't show a 65 Amp ALT but regardless
All power to the Ignition Coil should be thru the Ignition Switch except .for the Hot Start wire that goes to the S terminal on the starter relay so I cannot for the life of me see how alternator back feeding can happen unless something is Miswired. the only Item that might cross the Boundary would be a failed Regulator.
looking at the Alternator with a scope will for tell you it's condition.
"A good charging system has the following characteristics:
A fall in battery voltage should be accompanied by an increase in charging current and vice versa.
The regulated voltage can be measured with a multimeter, but this reading can appear correct even if the alternator has a diode fault that reduces the output by 33%. The only true way to monitor the alternator output is to observe the output voltage and current waveforms using an oscilloscope."
ok the reason I was asking is to try discover IF there was a combination of ALT/Regulator that could be causing this issue, I don't show a 65 Amp ALT but regardless
All power to the Ignition Coil should be thru the Ignition Switch except .for the Hot Start wire that goes to the S terminal on the starter relay so I cannot for the life of me see how alternator back feeding can happen unless something is Miswired. the only Item that might cross the Boundary would be a failed Regulator.
Don't forget he is using some sort of aftermarket harness. No telling how it's wired. If he has the ignition coil + and the alternator trigger wire hooked to the same spot, it can happen.
All he has to do is take the wire to the alternator regulator off the keyswitch + wire, and see if the problem goes away.
Don't forget he is using some sort of aftermarket harness. No telling how it's wired. If he has the ignition coil + and the alternator trigger wire hooked to the same spot, it can happen.
All he has to do is take the wire to the alternator regulator off the keyswitch + wire, and see if the problem goes away.
Yes, I can only Visualize OEM systems, Like you say, no telling on the Aftermarket harness.
I know on Gov't Motors Alternators you place a diode between the alt and the coil to stop backfeeding often this is due to bad diode Trio <<=== but this ain't Ford
IF you cut power on the Field the Alternator cannot maintain generation as there is not enough Magnetic mass to sustain it, unlike generators in the old days that once Flashed they were self sustaining.
Well, at least now I know he has a full wiring diagram for his year truck and maybe he can compare that to whatever harness he has now
I have a theory that, if correct, explains and solves the backfeeding, indicates the alternator is not broken, and does not require a diode. I will not be able to test it until Friday. I will write it up if it works.
I believe I have found the cause of the backfeeding. The 67-77 wiring harness came with an ignition switch that has 6 spade terminals that are unlabeled. The instructions have 4 wires (ign., acc, bat, and Neutral Safety), and show which terminal to connect them to. My 78 ignition switch has 9 terminals (2x ign., 2x acc., 2x P (neutral safety/brake), 2x bat., and 1 start). I connected the acc. wire to the acc terminal, the ign. to ign, the bat. to bat., and red/blue to P.
It took me a long time to realize that the bat terminal is hot in all positions of the ignition switch, including off. Once I realized this, I rewired the bat. wire to the ignition. The diagrams and instructions had nothing that would lead me to know that with figuring it out the hard way.
It worked just long enough for me to test if it was going to turn off when a bare wire from the ignition switch touched the body metal and shorted. Everything immediately shut off. I checked the battery. Battery is good and charged. Switched the starter solenoid with a known working one. Tested the started by hot wiring from the battery. All are still good. I checked all the fuses still look good.
Now, when I turn the switch nothing happens. When battery is connected, the dome light does not come on.
And now, when I overcome one obstacle, I do something careless and wind up right back where I don't know where to start. Yes, I feel stupid.
yes Bat is HOT at all times as it generally comes right off the Battery often just connected to the HOT post of the starter Relay or Solenoid (if a relay isn't used)
I thought you only got the DuraSpark II harness from Painless up in Ft Worth, did you also get another Harness from them ?
it seems like you are fighting about 3 issues at the same time ?
Your description of how it's wired is a little confusing. On all the ignition switches I have ever seen, the "bat" terminal on the switch is the input to the switch. The battery is hooked to that. That is why it says "bat". The simpler ignition switches take the power coming in from the "bat" terminal, and distribute that power to the other terminals depending on the physical position of the switch.
For instance, most switches will take the "bat" power and put it on the "start" terminal and the "ign" terminal when the switch is sprung all the way to start. When it's released, the "bat" power will be put on the "ign" terminal and the "acc" terminal if it has one. Turn the key backwards, and most of them will put the "bat" power onto the "acc" terminal only. Of course there are many types of ignition switches with many variations. But that is the general theme they use on most of them.
yes Bat is HOT at all times as it generally comes right off the Battery often just connected to the HOT post of the starter Relay or Solenoid (if a relay isn't used)
I thought you only got the DuraSpark II harness from Painless up in Ft Worth, did you also get another Harness from them ?
it seems like you are fighting about 3 issues at the same time ?
I got both the Duraspark II harness, and a full Painless wiring harness for the entire truck, so I am doing both at the same time. The old harness was just so hacked up it needed to be replaced. Figured while I was starting fresh, I would do the Duraspark too. I have been fighting more than one issue at a time since I bought this truck two years ago. I have all the mechanicals working now. This wiring is the last big hurdle that I just can't seem to get passed.
Thank you, Franklin2. That helps explain the switch better. Also changes my theory a bit. I need to find the fuseable link first, then revisit the switch again. I still agree that moving it to start may fix my problem. I have a new diode if I need it.
Went through all the wiring on the ignition switch. Went through all the diagrams and instructions I have. Made sure everything was wired correctly. Went to start on Tuesday, acted like the battery was drained. Figure since I had started it several times for short periods, it may not have recharged. Came on Saturday. Checked through everything again. Did not started. Slow crank, then dies. Dome light still comes on.
Used my other car to jump the battery. After several minutes, the truck still did not start. However, the jumper cables began to smoke, melt, and burn. Too hot to touch, I had to remove them with tools. Truck still does not start. I am very concerned that something bad is happening if wires are burning.
I am going to remove the power distribution block, and see if I can get it back at least to the point that it turns over. I am little concerned that I may have burned up my starter motor.
During the course of this, I found the new plug that connects the new harness to the ignition module red and white wires has a black ground on it. I do not think this is cause of my current problems, but no where do I see a ground coming from the red and white wires from the ignition module. I am guess this should be connected to ground? (see picture) I did try to connect it to the fender, but I think my other problems prevented me from telling if it did anything.
For reference I am including my ballast resistor and my ignition coil set-up to see if anyone else can see something wrong.
Thank you.
too many wires on the Resistor.....
from your install Manual it shows only 3 wires on page 19 ..... you have 4 wires installed, and I don't know what the extra wire goes too.
the install PDF seems simple enough
EDIT: ok depends on how you interpret the schematic... it could have 4 wires but it would be 2 wires on each side ... so the one side with 3 wires in your picture just don't look right as it should be one to fuse box and the Red wire from the ignition Module only.
since you have this complete new harness you probably no longer have the original Fuse links since the new harness replaces all existing wiring.
the BAT terminal on the IGN switch should be HOT IF not follow that wire back to it's source ... either the Maxi Fuse you installed near the starter relay or the Alternator Batt terminal .. all seems to come from Fuse box to the Ignition Switch.
since you have this complete new harness you probably no longer have the original Fuse links since the new harness replaces all existing wiring.
the BAT terminal on the IGN switch should be HOT IF not follow that wire back to it's source ... either the Maxi Fuse you installed near the starter relay or the Alternator Batt terminal .. all seems to come from Fuse box to the Ignition Switch.
Originally Posted by lonewolf_
too many wires on the Resistor.....
from your install Manual it shows only 3 wires on page 19 ..... you have 4 wires installed, and I don't know what the extra wire goes too.
the install PDF seems simple enough
EDIT: ok depends on how you interpret the schematic... it could have 4 wires but it would be 2 wires on each side ... so the one side with 3 wires in your picture just don't look right as it should be one to fuse box and the Red wire from the ignition Module only.
The extra wire is from an aftermarket volt meter. I had an oil pressure issue. Bought a whole closer. Wanted to make sure it was switched before I got to the wiring of the ignition switch. I would cut it, but the red/grn wire from the harness is barely long enough to get there. It would be so short I would need to splice in an extension. The extra connection seemed more problematic than the the extra wire.
I am hoping it is the Maxi-fuse that blew. That would make sense, and be easy to fix.
I see that red/green failing eventually, it's too tight. Why not put it on the other resistor terminal? Just swap all the wires from one side to the other by just unplugging them. The resistor doesn't care which way the power flows through it. That would make the red/green fit a little better.
I see that red/green failing eventually, it's too tight. Why not put it on the other resistor terminal? Just swap all the wires from one side to the other by just unplugging them. The resistor doesn't care which way the power flows through it. That would make the red/green fit a little better.
That's what I thought too, but the instructions specifically mention an in/out side. I was being cautious and connecting exactly like the picture until I could resolve some of my other problems.
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