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Another No-Start 7.3L

 
  #1  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:49 AM
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Another No-Start 7.3L

First off, I want to say that I have read SO MANY POSTS about no start situations and am trying to do my best to avoid running around in circles. That being said, I have a few questions about my current no start condition. My 2000 Excursion Limited 4x4 7.3L just decided to not startÖ.as soon as I got done replacing what seemed to be the entire front endÖÖ

So my truck has been sitting for about a month now in the driveway, waiting for me to get the time to address some issues. On Sunday, after what seemed to be forever, I finally finished replacing power steering pump, steering gear, both wheel bearing/hub assemblies, ball joints, tie rods, and all associated seals/o-rings, I was finally ready to drive my short bus! Well during this month of waiting for time to work on the bus, I found a guy locally that recently totaled his 2000 Ex and was selling his old Hydra tuner. Iíve been wanting to switch from my TS6 so I bought it. Downloaded the software, pulled my PCM, obtained the BOX code, converted it to the correct HEX code, swapped the tuners and proceeded to start the truck. This whole time the truck was down and out, I had pulled both batteries and trickle charged them. The batteries remained out of the truck until yesterday when I was done with the front end work. Fully charged when installed.

The truck started up great, no problems what so ever (just the typical initial exhaust smoke from sitting a while). Drove it all day, was BLOWN AWAY at the difference in power between the TS6 and the Hydra (way more power than my TS6 even in the 140HP tune), never had a problem until last night when I went to run to the store. Got in the truck, wouldnít startÖÖ. WTS light came on normally, starter turned over strong as ever, ICP built up well over 500psi, but would not fire. Maybe about a month before I parked the truck for front-end work, I replaced the ICP (Motorcraft) because I found oil in the pigtail when I unplugged it. When the truck wouldnít fire last night, I popped the hood, simply unplugged and plugged back in the ICP connector, and the truck started right up. I just assumed it wasnít quite plugged in all the way and that was it. Well, this morning it did the same strong turn over but didnít start. Unplugged the ICP and plugged it back in, still no start. Went back and unplugged it and left it unplugged to see if it would start, still no startÖ..

I was in a hurry this morning so I didnít notice if the tach moved while attempting to start, nor did I look at the IPR, I will check these when I get home today. I also plan on checking the ICP pigtail/wires to make sure thatís not the problem. But before I go digging into this, can someone verify that this is not anything to do with the Hydra??? I know that there are a lot of different things that can cause a no start condition, and I have a list of things to check this afternoon when I get home, I just canít help but think of something to do with the Hydra being installed. It very well could be totally unrelated, just canít shake the thought. Iím going to check the oil level first thing, I know the oil only had about 1000 miles on it when parked, fuel filter was changed at that time as well. I have a mechanical fuel pressure gauge that I havenít had a chance to install in the motor bay yet, gonna get that on asap so I can verify itís not due to low fuel pressure. Any clarification on if the Hydra could be causing issues, or any advise would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:16 PM
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You can always remove it and try again, if it starts then I would check all the wires on the hydra, Is there any way it got unplugged?
 
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by agsmv1 View Post
You can always remove it and try again, if it starts then I would check all the wires on the hydra, Is there any way it got unplugged?
I doubt it got unplugged but I will check. I had that happen with my TS6 but that was only because I accidentally snagged the cable while hiding the cable for the Edge Monitor
 
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:31 PM
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Update: got home and checked oil level. Good. Tried starting it and watched my numbers again. Voltage drops to 9-10v. Pulled both batteries, one of them only measured 189 CCA. Bought a new battery but now the thunderstorm is here and I don't really feel like putting the batteries in with all this lighting around. I'm assuming this is gonna be my problem. I'll delete the post if it is so we don't have duplicate "no-start due to bad battery" posts
 
  #5  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:17 AM
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Update: The storm gave me a long enough break and I was able to get the new battery installed last night....still no start. I decided to go ahead and install the mechanical fuel pressure gauge but the storm started back up as soon as I got the gauge hooked up. This morning before i left for work, i decided to turn the key to run position just to see if it built fuel pressure. After a couple seconds of key on, my fuel pressure built to about 55 psi. I noticed a very slight fuel leak around the filter cap, i must not have had the seal on great. Maybe this could account for a couple psi lost, but still seems low. I know 55 psi is not ideal, but should be enough to let the truck start, correct?

Before I had the batteries tested, I tried starting the truck and observed my monitor. Here are my numbers while attempting to start:

RPM: 150-200
ICP: > climbs to 2500 psi
IPR: 36-38%
IPW: 0.00

As stated, these numbers are while starting with one "bad" battery. Voltage would drop to around 10V but i've had my batteries run low in this truck before due to leaving a light on overnight and have had it start with lower voltage (it's cranked up before while JUST BARELY turning over). After swapping the battery, i was leaning heavily towards the fuel pump. But after this morning reading 55 psi, I'm not so sure. I have a Walbro GSL392 fuel pump at home that i'm going to install this afternoon if the weather holds up. We'll see if that makes a difference.

QUESTION:
Looking at my IPW, should my pulse width be something greater than 0 while starting? Or are those values not registering until the truck is actually running?
 
  #6  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:22 AM
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Your IPW should not be 0. It should read around 3ms while starting. Can you buzz test the injectors? This will tell you if the computer is telling the IDM to fire the injectors, and whether the IDM is doing so by sending out the voltage to fire the solenoids.

55 psi is more than enough to start the truck. That is not your problem.
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicmike View Post
Your IPW should not be 0. It should read around 3ms while starting. Can you buzz test the injectors? This will tell you if the computer is telling the IDM to fire the injectors, and whether the IDM is doing so by sending out the voltage to fire the solenoids.

55 psi is more than enough to start the truck. That is not your problem.
That's what I was thinking. I didn't get a chance to mess with it yesterday, hopefully I will be able to today. I'm going to pull the fuse for the IDM and make sure that's okay. As far as buzz test goes, from what I've read so far you have to have a pretty nice scanner (AE?) to do that test. I will look more into that test today. I'm going to go ahead and replace the fuel pump since 55 psi isn't ideal. I will update when I get a chance.
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:51 AM
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Get a decent obd2 adapter ($25) and download forscan(free). It can run the test for you.
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by M3rc View Post
Get a decent obd2 adapter ($25) and download forscan(free). It can run the test for you.
Yeah that's what seems to be the easiest/cheapest way. I have a bluetooth OBD2 adapter, hopefully it still works. Does the free version of Forscan perform the buzz test? I was going to pay the $9 for Car Gauge Pro since everything online says that app will do the buzz test but if the free Forscan works I'll use that.

I went ahead and pulled the IDM relay this morning and checked resistance when I got to work. I read 75 ohms across pin 85 <-> 86 and then O.L across pin 87 <-> 30. When I pulled the relay, I noticed it wasn't completely pushed in but I'm pretty sure it was in enough to make good contacts. No burn marks on the pins and the relay didn't smell burnt. When I get home I will run power across the relay to make sure it closes, but it seems like the relay checks out (I'm by no means an electrical expert so please correct me if I'm wrong)
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:10 AM
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The free version on your laptop does. I have both car gauge pro and forscan and like forscan better because works consistently. Car gauge pro was really buggy for me.
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by M3rc View Post
The free version on your laptop does. I have both car gauge pro and forscan and like forscan better because works consistently. Car gauge pro was really buggy for me.
Good to know, thank you! I will be downloading Forscan as soon as I get home
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:37 AM
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Moved to the 7.3L PSD forum.

Stewart
 
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
Moved to the 7.3L PSD forum.

Stewart
Thanks Stewart, sorry about that!
 
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:49 PM
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Update: Got home and downloaded the program, went to get the free license and I had to wait for approval on the Forscan website for my account to activate....

I decided to see if there were other tests to run while I waited and found a resistance test for the IDM circuit so I grabbed my multimeter and unplugged the IDM. I found A LOT of what I'm assuming to be dielectric grease in the plug...so much so that I grabbed my shopvac to pull it out of the pin slots. Numbers below.

Pin 23 & 22 = 5.2 ohms
Pin 23 & 7 = 5.2 ohms
Pin 23 & 19 = 0.23M ohms
Pin 23 & 9 = 5.2 ohms
Pin 24 & 6 = 4.8 ohms
Pin 24 & 21 = 61K ohms
Pin 24 & 8 = 4.8 ohms
Pin 24 & 20 = 7.7 ohms
Pin 23 & 26 = "O.L"
Pin 24 & 26 = "O.L"
Pin 23 & 18 = "O.L"
Pin 24 & 18 = "O.L"

So it looks like none of my numbers are in the range specified (2.8 - 3.6 ohms). So with the 4.8 and 5.2 ohm average I guess we'll call it, seems like the UVCH on each side has a bad connections? Possibly the reason the plug to the IDM was loaded with grease? The high value on injector #7 i'm assuming could just be from a loose connection on the solenoid connector?

For injector #3 and #6, does a high resistance like that indicate a bad solenoid? And if so, injector replacement? I'm assuming if the solenoid is bad then I need to pull them either way.

I just got an email saying my Forscan account is activated so I'm going to try to do the buzz test this afternoon.
 
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:55 PM
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I thought you only need the standard license and it comes with it automatically. Just to avoid throwing money away and since you already have the idm unplugged. Check the ohms again at the 42 pin connector, if they're significantly different from the 42 pin connector to the valve covers then you can narrow down where its happening. Then check them at the uvch again before you go diving into valve covers....not that it's hard, I just hope you don't get good at it.
If still bad at uvch, then pull valve covers, inspect uvch and check the injectors themselves by unplugging the uvch. This could be as simple as 50 cent mod, or replacing uvchs.
I'd bet on just bad connections, but if you decide to replace solenoids, while you've got the solenoids off, check the clearance of the armature plates on the injectors to see how much clearance there is under the armature(should be around .004)



D+ == driver's side common. P+ == passenger side common


The UVCH is something like GP, GP, I, I, G, I, I, GP, GP
GP== Glow plug
I == Injector
G==Ground

I had an IDM go out with the same result, but mine was corroded and looked as though it had sat in a puddle of water for a while so it was a lot easier to figure out why. In your case, its good to make sure the connections are solid so you don't risk burning another idm out.

Disclaimer: There are many other people on here with MUCH more expertise than I have and I hope they post if I'm saying anything off base.
 

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