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I bought this truck about a month or so ago off of eBay. It has the N/A 7.3/E4OD with 135,000 miles. This isn't my first IDI truck, my other was a 1993 2wd F-250. This truck has many accessories installed by the previous, second, owner of the truck. GPS, backup camera, Viper alarm, remote battery power on both bumpers, ARB dual air compressor w/ airline connection, air horn, handgun safe, seat covers, topper, and a few more minor things. Apparently, this truck was originally owned by a man who used it only to tow horse and travel trailers. The second owner used it as sort of a hunting rig occasionally, only putting several thousand miles on it in the 8 years he owned it while being stored inside. I do suspect it being in a accident at some point, looking at the hood hinges and the core support is a factory one but appears to be in gray primer with factory stickers over it? Is that typical? My other trucks were gray, so it never stood out to me if they were this color or not.
I have been in contact with Conestoga Diesel and plan to have them rebuild my pump to stock N/A specs at the discretion of Banks' technical department. They stated that I need the N/A calibration and the instructions will include fueling adjustments for that pump. I imagine that this will be the typical "flats" turn up I did on my last IDI. I will say I am slightly concerned about the higher compression and cylinder pressures on the N/A reciprocating assembly, but I suppose many have lived with this kit. From Conestoga, I will also get the balanced injectors and complete installation kit to basically replace the entire fuel system, including the mechanical pump. The previous owner had the tanks, "shower head" pick-ups, and the Ford tank selector valve replaced recently.
Transmission will follow once I have recovered financially from what I have already done.
Any suggestions or pointers for me on this turbo kit? What should I expect?
Did you let Conestoga Diesel know that you planned on installing a turbo? Seems odd that Banks would suggest N/A IP calibration when installing their turbo.
They stated that I need the N/A calibration and the instructions will include fueling adjustments for that pump.
Reads like he's saying start with a normal N/A calibration (so you know where you're at) then turn it up as per Banks instructions. ATS info reads the same. Either 1 1/2 or 2 flats from stock calibration to increase fuel at WOT.
From their statements on my concerns about the internal differences of N/A vs turbo, this kit was designed to supplement the N/A engine from the start. Not an upgrade or replacement for the factory turbo trucks. I don’t want to do anything to negatively affect this pristine truck.
Only concern I have is the bearings, actually. Once I got it home I noticed the shop the PO used put a PSD filter on, which is fine, but they overfilled by 3-4 quarts. Obviously someone thought it was a PSD. No telling how many times that has happened. The oil pressure gauge in the dash is inop, looks physically broken. With that much of an overfill I am sure it was aerating the oil. Just a matter of what effect it may have had.
From their statements on my concerns about the internal differences of N/A vs turbo, this kit was designed to supplement the N/A engine from the start. Not an upgrade or replacement for the factory turbo trucks.
Cool!
I don't think you have to worry about the PO overfilling the crankcase. Just make sure the oil is at the right level and drive it. You can always troubleshoot the oil gauge in the dash. It may be something as simple as a bad ground.
Wouldnt worry too much about the overfill. The old engine in my 92 went about 7 miles with the lifters audibly ticking due to severely low oil (long story). Then a few years later when about 500 miles with a gallon or two of diesel in the oil (on top of roughly 9qts of oil). Never ticked, never knocked, (when correctly filled with only oil), still runs like a champ, only pulled to upgrade.
Simply put, i would ignore banks, mostly due to the fact that they will ignore you once your turbo ships. Secondly, theyre covering their *** as it were by issuing their specs. To each their own, but if i just spent better than 2k on a kit, id want to get the most out of it as is practical. Most consider 15 psi to be very much on the safe side with stock headbolts. To do that you will need a bigger pump, a pump that is calibrated on the stand to flow 80 or 90cc will be better than a stock pump turned up a flat or 2 (you will also need to adjust the wastegate to use the extra fuel). Thirdly, and purely my own opinion, id buy from R&D, i have his turbo kit and 110cc pump and theyre great. Your banks kit should be able to take care of 90cc no problem after adjusting the wastegate.
Regardless, i would put a pyro in, get a good transmission cooler, and a tugger shift kit or similar.
Most consider 15 psi to be very much on the safe side with stock headbolts.
Maybe "most" of questionable experience who appear on forums consider that the safe side but back in the day FoMoCo with engines in test stands during extensive R&D developing of the '93-'94 factory turbo IDI's found that 10 psi was max, otherwise over EXTENDED mileage there was an internal component failure and it wasn't headgaskets/headbolts.
Simply put, i would ignore banks, mostly due to the fact that they will ignore you once your turbo ships. Secondly, theyre covering their *** as it were by issuing their specs. To each their own, but if i just spent better than 2k on a kit, id want to get the most out of it as is practical. Most consider 15 psi to be very much on the safe side with stock headbolts. To do that you will need a bigger pump, a pump that is calibrated on the stand to flow 80 or 90cc will be better than a stock pump turned up a flat or 2 (you will also need to adjust the wastegate to use the extra fuel). Thirdly, and purely my own opinion, id buy from R&D, i have his turbo kit and 110cc pump and theyre great. Your banks kit should be able to take care of 90cc no problem after adjusting the wastegate.
Regardless, i would put a pyro in, get a good transmission cooler, and a tugger shift kit or similar.Yesterday 06:18 AM
I will not say the you are wrong, but I do disagree slightly. I have been in contact with Conestoga Diesel and followed their recommendation of the "Baby Moose" pump, which is a stock turbo calibration. They were very helpful and explained their reasoning clearly. I am not sure if I mentioned in this thread, but maximum power is not my goal here. A little extra power and more so the prevention of losing it at elevation is my primary concern. I know there is no shortage of disparaging Banks customer service complaints, but I will wait and form my own opinion on the matter. No one can argue that Banks is very thorough in their design and execution of their products. I would suspect the end users are more of the issue than the products themselves. One suggestion from Conestoga was to relocate the EGT probe to upstream of the turbo for more accurate readings, although I will use the Banks location initially. They spec a maximum EGT based on that location and there is no reason for me to believe they didn't run calculations and tests to confirm that is a viable location for temps. These are not complex machines and Ford/International did a lot of research on an engine that they certainly knew was up for replacement by the PSD, if the IDIT was pushed by Ford rather than offered by International. With N/A internals I will keep the boost and EGT's as low as possible or as designed by Banks. This kit was designed specifically for the N/A applications and these engines are not hot rods, nor will they ever be. They are simply air pumps at their core. The more heat and air you force it to pump, the faster it wears out, hence the changes seen to the internals on IDIT engines. The root of the legendary, IMO, IDI engine is "overbuilt and under stressed" giving them their reliability and longevity.
The Trans Command module comes as part of the kit along with complete exhaust, minus manifolds. With the sale and shipping incentive they have going now I feel like this kit is a great value.
Maybe "most" of questionable experience who appear on forums consider that the safe side but back in the day FoMoCo with engines in test stands during extensive R&D developing of the '93-'94 factory turbo IDI's found that 10 psi was max, otherwise over EXTENDED mileage there was an internal component failure and it wasn't headgaskets/headbolts.
I am parroting your points here, I believe. This truck is clean with low miles and I seek to preserve as much of that as possible. I do, however, have a spare N/A IDI to rebuild should something bad happen. Again, Banks' technical staff are certainly engineers and had no problem answering and explaining my questions satisfactorily in real time, cold called. Not many places that I have called could do that on the spot, or even at all. I trust their design and revisions over the at least two decades this kit has been on the market.
ETA: Quotes in italics, I need to brush up on my forum skills.
They are simply air pumps at their core. The more heat and air you force it to pump, the faster it wears out, hence the changes seen to the internals on IDIT engines. The root of the legendary, IMO, IDI engine is "overbuilt and under stressed" giving t
Couldn't agree more with this, and that's why they can easily reach 1/2 a million plus miles with proper maintenance, however times have changed and a lot of people are looking for more power, and are definitely finding it with bigger pumps and different turbo setups.
Sure a performance build will shorten lifespan, but if properly maintained, and not dogged 24/7 I think they'll still last long enough for most people.
If your main goal is longevity, I would have left it na, other than the high compression (due to being indirect injected) these motors are built identical to a turbo charged application.
With no turbo there is really no need for oil jets under the pistons, or a heavy duty block mounted oil cooler, thankfully international opted for both, unlike gm
With no turbo there is really no need for oil jets under the pistons, or a heavy duty block mounted oil cooler, thankfully international opted for both, unlike gm
Well, part of this is that the N/A fuel calibration is basically "as much as you can possibly get from the air" while meeting smoke emissions of the time. So, under full load you get some pretty high EGTs, especially high in the revs where you don't have as much air.
High EGTs = high piston temps, etc. So, piston jets.
GM's 6.2, in addition to having less displacement also produces less power per liter, so it's running leaner. Leaner = cooler.
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Back on the topic of turbos, generally you'll end up with lower EGTs at the same power level than a N/A motor, because of more cooling air and a leaner burn. Of course, depending on how much extra fuel/power you add, you can get high EGTs under load.
I personally think that with a Banks Sidewinder, you can handle 15 with a N/A spec motor. The bearings aren't going to fail as long as you change your oil on a regular basis(key!). Put in your EGT gauge and adjust the max fueling based on EGTs - I think if you aim for like 1050 sustained(at the banks up-pipe probe), you'll not run into any issues ever.
Make sure to adjust your timing appropriately - turbocharged motors seem to like it a little more retarded than N/A ones - more heat in the cylinder means quicker burning I think. Play with it until you get the best power and fuel economy.
Personally, the one anecdote I have is when I bought my '93. It had a Factory charger on it and a conservative calibration. I ran it that way for a couple of months, until my serp belt tensioner broke on me. It was below freezing out, and I limped it 3 miles to an auto parts store with no water pump. Temp gauge never hit "H", but got really close...
After that I noticed weeping around the head gaskets at the corner of the block. I've learned that that means the gaskets are on the way out, so I went "well, **** it, lets have some fun!". Added my RD2-110 pump, dyno'd it at 250 RWHP(over 300 crank). and just daily-drove it. I've hauled some heavy loads during that time too...
A year later, the gaskets finally gave out, tons of pressure into the coolant, and white smoke out the exhaust.
When I pulled the motor apart, it was spotless inside. No damage, nothing. Put it back together with new gaskets, cam, head studs etc, and that went in another rig.
(The '93 ended up with a '93 factory turbo spec motor that "had issues" because it was sitting there ready to run; it ticks a bit, but has been running fine for over a year now as well. Just pulled about 14K lbs home on Friday, at 60 MPH).
I am definitely excited to get all my parts in and get it together. I'll run it as it comes and put a few thousand miles on it before looking at making any changes, other than what may be immediately necessary. I want to upgrade to the gear reduction starter soon, I put one on my last one and forgot how much the the older design feels like it is struggling.
I am definitely excited to get all my parts in and get it together. I'll run it as it comes and put a few thousand miles on it before looking at making any changes, other than what may be immediately necessary. I want to upgrade to the gear reduction starter soon, I put one on my last one and forgot how much the the older design feels like it is struggling.
They are both gear reduction designs, and produce the same cranking speed... when new.
Yours is probably worn inside, could use a good cleaning and/or new brushes. A new starter(of either design) will make a world of difference.
The only direct drives were the Delcos that came on the '83-84's. Their failure rate was so high Ford quickly switch to the Mitsubishis and Nippondensos.
I've had a lot better luck out of the nippindenso design versus the Mitsubishi design, part of the problem is a lot of the aftermarket parts they use to rebuild them, the main lug that takes the power from the solenoid to the field coils, the eye is too small to encompass all of the wire, so you end up with a bottleneck, anytime your not getting enough amperage you get heat!
I went through three Mitsubishi ones within six months and the fourth was the nippin design and it's still on there three years later,
Oil is one of the biggest killers for starters, if you notice any on the outside, the leak needs to be fixed and starter disassembled and cleaned.
Proper maintenance, and short cranking periods will ensure it lasts
04-03-2019, 06:08 PM
