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1957 - 1960 F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Box Style Ford Trucks

Horn issue :(

 
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:49 PM
ammotroop1991
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Horn issue :(

New relays and new wires including steering wheel hardware and cannot get stupid horn to work. relay is clicking and nada....direct power to horn beeps....going through the button and relay makes sparks and burns wires. Any ideas. Followed manual and all interweb info I could find. In this stupid horn for $100
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ammotroop1991 View Post
New relays and new wires including steering wheel hardware and cannot get stupid horn to work. relay is clicking and nada....direct power to horn beeps....going through the button and relay makes sparks and burns wires. Any ideas. Followed manual and all interweb info I could find. In this stupid horn for $100
Please, when asking questions, list ALL the pertinent info, we are not mind readers.

You failed to list any info, so no one will know what year, model and series truck you're working on.

 
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:51 AM
ammotroop1991
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1960 F100 223 3 spd
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ammotroop1991 View Post
1960 F100 223 3 spd
Is the 14308 horn wire intact, are all the horn related parts shown in the pic above the steering wheel in place?







 
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:03 AM
ammotroop1991
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Yes sir. When wire is hooked to the relay on the passenger fender well, when push the horn button Sparks and smoke. Replaced the relay and same thing. Clicking from the relay...btw the horn works when hot wire applied to horn.
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:04 AM
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Yes sir. When wire is hooked to the relay on the passenger fender well, when push the horn button Sparks and smoke. Replaced the relay and same thing. Clicking from the relay...btw the horn works when hot wire applied to horn. And thank you. Apparently you don't sleep either.
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 08:48 AM
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Disconnect the wire coming from the steering wheel at the relay. Jump power to the relay and see if the horn sounds. If it does, the problem is between the horn button and the relay. If it doesn't, there is a problem between the relay and the horn, but you still could have an issue between the horn button and relay too.

If the horn sounds when the relay is provided power, look at the stuff in the diagram from number dummy and make sure everything is there. If it is, perhaps the wire going down the column is grounding inside the column, it only has cloth insulation. Check conductivity with a volt meter from that wire and ground. If you have conductivity, it is bad. It can be removed but will need to be re spliced. Cut it below the column and pull it out and inspect it and or replace it.

This all assumes the horn, steering column, etc. is all original.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Walston View Post
Disconnect the wire coming from the steering wheel at the relay. Jump power to the relay and see if the horn sounds. If it does, the problem is between the horn button and the relay. If it doesn't, there is a problem between the relay and the horn, but you still could have an issue between the horn button and relay too.

If the horn sounds when the relay is provided power, look at the stuff in the diagram from number dummy and make sure everything is there. If it is, perhaps the wire going down the column is grounding inside the column, it only has cloth insulation. Check conductivity with a volt meter from that wire and ground. If you have conductivity, it is bad. It can be removed but will need to be re spliced. Cut it below the column and pull it out and inspect it and or replace it.

This all assumes the horn, steering column, etc. is all original.

Hope this is helpful.
I was under the impression that wire to the horn button just completed the ground circuit for the control side of the relay....
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b View Post
I was under the impression that wire to the horn button just completed the ground circuit for the control side of the relay....
Duh.......you are correct

So looking at it that way, if when he presses the horn button and the wire is getting hot, he has something wired wrong on the relay and the horn wire is tied to the positive side of the battery and that is why everything is getting hot. Look into the wiring at the relay and make sure the horn is completing the ground side of the circuit and it is not connecting it to positive. Sorry for the misinformation!
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Walston View Post
Duh.......you are correct

So looking at it that way, if when he presses the horn button and the wire is getting hot, he has something wired wrong on the relay and the horn wire is tied to the positive side of the battery and that is why everything is getting hot. Look into the wiring at the relay and make sure the horn is completing the ground side of the circuit and it is not connecting it to positive. Sorry for the misinformation!
I would say that is a fair assumption.

I do not have the wring diagram for the horn circuit handy. But If I recall correctly The Horn relay has 3 terminals. After finding a pic it does have 3 Terminals See below Pic We will use this pic for proper wring.

Terminal 3 is for Bat + power. This feeds the N/O contact for the horn and the coil for the relay,
Terminal 1 is the switched Bat + feed for the Horn.
Terminal 5 goes to to the horn button and is the ground for the relay's coil. When the horn button is pushed it completes the ground circuit for the relay's coil pulling the contacts closed sending power through terminal 1 to the horn.

The terminal Nos. should be identified on the bottom of the relay. see below pic.


I suspect what has happened here is Bat power has been fed to Terminal 5 the horn hooked to terminal 1 and the horn button hooked to terminal 3. This would potentiality cook the wire to the Horn button and will cook the relay.







 
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:54 PM
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Is the wire that goes through the column original or new? If original, it might be corroded internally and causing added resistance and drawing more ampres. This can cause wires and components to burn up.
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by robski_1970 View Post
Is the wire that goes through the column original or new? If original, it might be corroded internally and causing added resistance and drawing more ampres. This can cause wires and components to burn up.
The wire through column is just a ground it carries no voltage so to speak.
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:34 PM
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Here is what I mean by if the wire going through the steering column is corroded inside and adding extra resistance to ground (bad ground). I drew a simple schematic using Ohms law showing a resistor in series with the relay solenoid lead to ground with an added resistor. I just made up example resistance so its not accurate. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:42 PM
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To clarify my drawing a little more, corrosion inside the steering column wire would be like adding a resistor internally to the solenoid of the relay and basically making it require more amps to activate the solenoid to close the switch and give power to the horn.
 
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by robski_1970 View Post

Here is what I mean by if the wire going through the steering column is corroded inside and adding extra resistance to ground (bad ground). I drew a simple schematic using Ohms law showing a resistor in series with the relay solenoid lead to ground with an added resistor. I just made up example resistance so its not accurate. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)

If the wire is corroded extra resistance on the ground would happen but the draw on that ground from the relay is less than 1 amp, that ground does not drive the horn it only actuates the latching coil in the relay. You could never get enough resistance to cook the wire since the amp draw on the relay is so low like about 500 Milliamps.
 

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