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Real World Capability

 
  #16  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cficare View Post
That website said, "A passenger car, motorcycle, pickup truck or panel truck that has a registered gross weight of less than 7,501 lbs. Effective tax year 2016, pickup trucks registered for personal use and weighing 7,501 pounds but not in excess of 10,000 pounds may qualify for tax relief." In 2016, the upper GVWR limit was raised from 7,500# to 10,000#. When I bought my first Excursion in 2003, I asked the DMV to lower the stated GVWR (it was over 7,500#) on the reistration so I could get the tax relief. Are you saying your GVWR on your registration is over 10,000# and you get PPT relief?
I don't have my registration yet as my truck is on order. Registrations I have for current and former vehicles only list the empty weight (EW on the registration). The gross weight (GVW) is the weight of the truck empty. The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the weight of the truck plus payload. I think you are getting the two confused.
 
  #17  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:51 PM
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That extra leaf didnít exist just a few years ago on the 350 and the GVW still topped out at 11,500.
 
  #18  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by T diesel View Post
That extra leaf didnít exist just a few years ago on the 350 and the GVW still topped out at 11,500.
You are overlooking the fact that the previous three generations of the F350 came equipped with the taller, magical rear block that made an otherwise identical truck good for an additional 1500 pounds of payload. At least the current generation gives you something real (Dana axle and an extra leaf) for the F350 upgrade.
 
  #19  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:40 PM
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Actually, 2014, 15, and 16 250's had 4" blocks scattered here and there.
Some 250's had 4 leafs without the helper.
The 250 2" block squat was ridiculous!
The 250's came with three thick leafs, one with three thick and the overload,
and finally four thinner leafs.
 
  #20  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:51 PM
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The F150 GVWR is within a few hundred pounds of both GAWR added together.


A 10,000 GVWR F250 can pull a 16,000 lbs trailer in many configurations. That will keep you out of CDL and log book surveillance. The F250 also has more safety margin than an F150 on the rear axle weight so you can put a service body on it as a 2wd F250 isnt that heavy.


I did the math and I can max out my 14k gooseneck and stay within capacity in my F250 Platinum.
 
  #21  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe T View Post
The F150 GVWR is within a few hundred pounds of both GAWR added together.


A 10,000 GVWR F250 can pull a 16,000 lbs trailer in many configurations. That will keep you out of CDL and log book surveillance. The F250 also has more safety margin than an F150 on the rear axle weight so you can put a service body on it as a 2wd F250 isnt that heavy.


I did the math and I can max out my 14k gooseneck and stay within capacity in my F250 Platinum.
Well, I mean... as long as you're paying your fair share of taxes, right Joe?
 
  #22  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:00 PM
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Yup


Gotta fix these potholes.
 
  #23  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cficare View Post
Your logic does make sense, but not to the commisioners of revenue. Hence, the GVWR system in place. Here in VA, annual personal property taxes are discounted more than 40% if your GVWR is 10,000# or less. My F250 is capable of more (I have Torque air-bags), but my vehicle's documented pedigree states 10,000# GVWR. To exceed that is my personal gamble with the tax man.

PS - I had a big red V10 Excursion.
Actually....that's not true. The VA law changed in July 2016. It goes by GVW, not GVWR. My 2016 Ram 3500 Dually with a 14,000GVWR was registered with personal plates and qualified for the personal property tax relief. Same with my 2018 F350.
 
  #24  
Old 01-21-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ATC Crazy View Post
Actually....that's not true. The VA law changed in July 2016. It goes by GVW, not GVWR. My 2016 Ram 3500 Dually with a 14,000GVWR was registered with personal plates and qualified for the personal property tax relief. Same with my 2018 F350.
Pulled my registration and there is no "GVW" field, but it did list EW = 7,023, GW = 10,000 and GVWR = 10,000.
Oddly enough, wife's 2018 Explorer Ltd said EW = 4,562, GW = (blank) and GVWR = 10,000!
 
  #25  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:08 PM
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For safety, I see no problem loading a super duty up to the axle ratings but not more.

Legal-wise is a different issue. I see legal points of view made all the time but have never seen anyone ever cite motor vehicle code in a way I can follow their citation and read for myself. I honestly believe many folks are simply stating what they think the law should be. I've also had no success finding reference to factory weight stickers in my home state's vehicle code. If I planned on operating right at the limits I would contact the proper authorities and have them show me where to find the applicable laws because these types of laws tend to vary state to state.
 
  #26  
Old 01-22-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ATC_F350 View Post
My understanding from talking with DOT, is that as far as they are concerned, your GVWR is 11,940. He said as long as no components rating is exceeded, your good (exception is 20k max per axle). Your tow rating is the GCWR or the GVWR of the truck + GVWR of the trailer, whichever is greater.
That is pretty much my understanding after consulting DOT, as well. Taxed weight and "safe" weight are two completely different things. "Safe" weight is determined by tire or axle rating, whichever is less. They won’t even "blink" as you cross the scales if your axle weight is comfortably less than the capacity of the normal tire for your vehicle. If it’s close, you may get pulled in so they can verify actual specifications.

They laughed when I mentioned the manufacturer's tag on the door post...
 
  #27  
Old 01-22-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cficare View Post
That website said, "A passenger car, motorcycle, pickup truck or panel truck that has a registered gross weight of less than 7,501 lbs. Effective tax year 2016, pickup trucks registered for personal use and weighing 7,501 pounds but not in excess of 10,000 pounds may qualify for tax relief." In 2016, the upper GVWR limit was raised from 7,500# to 10,000#. When I bought my first Excursion in 2003, I asked the DMV to lower the stated GVWR (it was over 7,500#) on the reistration so I could get the tax relief. Are you saying your GVWR on your registration is over 10,000# and you get PPT relief?
Truck is on order so don't have a registration. As mentioned before you are confusing gross vehicle weight and gross vehicle weight rating. The tax relief act specifies gross weight as outlined above.
 
  #28  
Old 01-22-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HRTKD View Post
I understand where you're going with it. In my opinion, the airbags take some of the stress off the leaf spring hangers (where the springs attach to the frame). But just because you've spread the weight doesn't mean all the components involved can handle more. Sure, there's an engineering fudge factor involved somewhere but we don't know what it is. So trying to take that into account is like hitting a moving target.

I broke a leaf spring bracket on my prior truck thinking there was more capacity than was published. I learned my lesson there and I'll be sure to keep within the published maximums on my F-350.

I see a lot of this argument by guys with F-250's trying to justify their purchase when they could have easily moved up to an F-350 for not much more. I understand your situation the way you explained it. You're stuck with the lower capacity because of it. It's something you just have to live with now.
You can count me in as one of those guys who justified their F250 purchase. Here in Ontario, having a GVWR over 4500 KGs (9920 lbs) throws you into a grey area in the law where (to my interpretation of the laws) you don't need to keep logs/hours, but do need annual inspections. It also makes the need to pull into weigh stations questionable as I never did nail down a full answer on that. Having the F250 (with the 9900 lbs derate) keeps me from having to deal with those headaches.

Here's where I differ from the OP though. I don't try to justify going over my derated limits. Loaded up with the fiver, I'm still in the 9500 lbs range. My 'justification' comes from being comfortable being near my limits. I normally would prefer a decent safety margin. Knowing the truck's real capability is closer to 11600 lbs, means capability wise, I'm closer to a 2100 lbs safety margin, vs the 400 lb safety margin my sticker indicates.
 
  #29  
Old 01-22-2019, 11:05 AM
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I ordered a 250 6.2L because I wanted the smoother ride and 3,000 lbs of available payload. The 350 was too stiff of a ride and had an inferior transmission. The PSD engine ate up too much of my payload in a 250 (came close to my F150). In my experience and for my needs, payload was the limiting factor way ahead of towing capacity.

Then again, my truck is a toy hauler and even a toy on its own. It is not a work truck. It is a fun truck and boy is it fun... 😂

 
  #30  
Old 01-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by catrasca View Post
I ordered a 250 6.2L because I wanted the smoother ride and 3,000 lbs of available payload. The 350 was too stiff of a ride and had an inferior transmission.


Inferior transmission? Everyone I've talked to or read about, thinks the current tranny is pretty darn good.


 

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