E4OD Problems.Gears..No Gears
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
E4OD Problems.Gears..No Gears
Hey All,
Old Gretta is giving me Grief...I have owned her since birth..1990-F-250 351W
I have had a rash of problems with her...3 Mos ago..With TC..Not locking up or TC in and out...I ended up Changing The MLP sensor/ neutral switch..and Wha-LA..Cant remember when she shifted so good..even Got better gas mileage...about 2 mos after The fix..The Tranny Not only has a lock up problem..But..No gears or shifting..after 5 min of running...As I made it home...I figured out...When i lost it all...By Shutting the engine down..key off momentarily..Then Restart..And Keep Shifter handle towards me In drive..She goes thru the gears ok...after 5 min or more..Just starts slipping again and nothing...Had to repeat Above procedure to make it home..This makes me suspect a Definite electrical Problem..My first thought was a defective MLP..I checked it and it was within specs..But I just didnt want to chance it..Advance Auto Gave me another..(Borg Warner)
I Pulled some codes...And now i am seeing a 14 (never seen that one before) a 31 and 11
I had a small leak where The T lines go into the radiator..But i repaired it...A sort off whining noise alerted me to the fluid level..I topped it off with about a quart and a quarter...And it just seemed to get worse
I did However removed the wires/Plug connector to the solenoid pack to check for bad connections..Maybe i shouldnt have?
For some dam reason..I feel that it may be in the steering columb some how..a connector..linkage I dunno.. Thereseems to be Quite a few connections made from the dash to the tranny..at this stage in Gretta's life I am very leary of a corroded or burnt Connections..i Haven't checked the codes yet..but i think one of them was a PIP sensor...Last year i Had to replace The TFI module
today I'm going down and check codes again...Some wirring..and The TPS...which seems like its okay..But it apears many sensors on her are involved with the correct operation of this transmission...Brake lights..Map sensor..Geesh!!
I'm even thinking PCM..( Why it seems to work when sort of rebooted..power of and on..seems to rest something?
I also seem to think there may be a slight stoppage in the radiators Heat exchanger...Does any one have the correct operational Fluid pressures?
I would Appreciate any possible direction you guys can suggest....I will be back..even if i got lucky...Thanks Fella's
She is over due for a fluid change and Filter,And maybe Transmission line replacement..but money is real tight right now.
A Bit of history...when the break in oil came out of her The truck saw nothing but full synthetic...@ about 100,000 miles..off warrantee...Cost me 2800 at Amco..new tc..valve pack etc. 6 years later aprox..Up in Newfoundland..Pump Seal goes out again!
This time..only 300 bucks...Makes me wonder if Amco burnt me?
Old Gretta is giving me Grief...I have owned her since birth..1990-F-250 351W
I have had a rash of problems with her...3 Mos ago..With TC..Not locking up or TC in and out...I ended up Changing The MLP sensor/ neutral switch..and Wha-LA..Cant remember when she shifted so good..even Got better gas mileage...about 2 mos after The fix..The Tranny Not only has a lock up problem..But..No gears or shifting..after 5 min of running...As I made it home...I figured out...When i lost it all...By Shutting the engine down..key off momentarily..Then Restart..And Keep Shifter handle towards me In drive..She goes thru the gears ok...after 5 min or more..Just starts slipping again and nothing...Had to repeat Above procedure to make it home..This makes me suspect a Definite electrical Problem..My first thought was a defective MLP..I checked it and it was within specs..But I just didnt want to chance it..Advance Auto Gave me another..(Borg Warner)
I Pulled some codes...And now i am seeing a 14 (never seen that one before) a 31 and 11
I had a small leak where The T lines go into the radiator..But i repaired it...A sort off whining noise alerted me to the fluid level..I topped it off with about a quart and a quarter...And it just seemed to get worse
I did However removed the wires/Plug connector to the solenoid pack to check for bad connections..Maybe i shouldnt have?
For some dam reason..I feel that it may be in the steering columb some how..a connector..linkage I dunno.. Thereseems to be Quite a few connections made from the dash to the tranny..at this stage in Gretta's life I am very leary of a corroded or burnt Connections..i Haven't checked the codes yet..but i think one of them was a PIP sensor...Last year i Had to replace The TFI module
today I'm going down and check codes again...Some wirring..and The TPS...which seems like its okay..But it apears many sensors on her are involved with the correct operation of this transmission...Brake lights..Map sensor..Geesh!!
I'm even thinking PCM..( Why it seems to work when sort of rebooted..power of and on..seems to rest something?
I also seem to think there may be a slight stoppage in the radiators Heat exchanger...Does any one have the correct operational Fluid pressures?
I would Appreciate any possible direction you guys can suggest....I will be back..even if i got lucky...Thanks Fella's
She is over due for a fluid change and Filter,And maybe Transmission line replacement..but money is real tight right now.
A Bit of history...when the break in oil came out of her The truck saw nothing but full synthetic...@ about 100,000 miles..off warrantee...Cost me 2800 at Amco..new tc..valve pack etc. 6 years later aprox..Up in Newfoundland..Pump Seal goes out again!
This time..only 300 bucks...Makes me wonder if Amco burnt me?
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
E4OD Problems Con't
Sorry for all the yackin fellas..Its just i was afraid to leave something vital out, LOL as i seen people go on in here about their problems and forget to tell us..what the hell is the vehicle your talking about? 
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,345
Likes: 802
From: Mi'kma'ki
This is how my trans finally went in my F450.At startup it would engage enough to go but after a little bit it wouldn't anymore.I dropped the pan it was full clutch pack material.Wore right out.You've probably got a worn out trans that needs a reman.It does the same thing in manual 1 and 2 right? After 5 mins when it slips in D,the same thing happens if you manually shift into 1 or 2?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,704
Likes: 2,625
From: SE Florida
There is nothing electrical that can cause no gears. Not the MLP, not the wiring, not the solenoids, nothing. No gears at all ALWAYS is due to a mechanical failure inside the transmission.
Since yours will work for short time after shutting the engine off I suspect you have failed seals in one or more of the clutches. When the engine is off and there is no pressure the seal falls back into place and works for a little while.
The cooler lines should see between 0 and about 60 PSI, depending on operating conditions. Checking pressure in the cooler circuit is not a good way to determine if there is a problem. You need to measure flow. Here is how.
Actually, I think it's a waste of time to do this on your trans. It doesn't matter at this point if the cooler is plugged or not. When you rebuild or replace the transmission you must replace all the coolers or you'll have this problem again pretty soon.
When you were talking about break in oil, were you referring to the transmission? I've never heard of transmission break in oil. That's a new one on me.
Since yours will work for short time after shutting the engine off I suspect you have failed seals in one or more of the clutches. When the engine is off and there is no pressure the seal falls back into place and works for a little while.
The cooler lines should see between 0 and about 60 PSI, depending on operating conditions. Checking pressure in the cooler circuit is not a good way to determine if there is a problem. You need to measure flow. Here is how.
Warm the trans up. It should be at least 150°F.
Have two containers, each at least one gallon.
Get a hose that will fit over the cooler return line at the rear of the trans.
Remove the return line where it enters the rear of the trans.
Put the hose on the return line and put it into container #1.
Have a helper start the engine and leave it in park and at idle.
When the flow is steady out of the hose (that should only take a few seconds) move the hose to container #2 for EXACTLY 15 seconds, then put it back in container #1.
Shut the engine off.
Results:
If fluid sprayed out of the transmission, the test fails. A small dribble is fine, but spraying is not.
If there is less than a quart in container #2 the test fails.
If the test fails either the cooler bypass valve is stuck open or there is a restriction in the cooler circuit.
Have two containers, each at least one gallon.
Get a hose that will fit over the cooler return line at the rear of the trans.
Remove the return line where it enters the rear of the trans.
Put the hose on the return line and put it into container #1.
Have a helper start the engine and leave it in park and at idle.
When the flow is steady out of the hose (that should only take a few seconds) move the hose to container #2 for EXACTLY 15 seconds, then put it back in container #1.
Shut the engine off.
Results:
If fluid sprayed out of the transmission, the test fails. A small dribble is fine, but spraying is not.
If there is less than a quart in container #2 the test fails.
If the test fails either the cooler bypass valve is stuck open or there is a restriction in the cooler circuit.
When you were talking about break in oil, were you referring to the transmission? I've never heard of transmission break in oil. That's a new one on me.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
So, your saying..if i unplugged the MPL..and the The solenoid pack on a healthy E4OD. , I would be able To Still get Gears?
And..RE=break in oil in the Trans. That was My Own decision, To Change fluid and Filter @20K miles,,,even The rear end, All newly assembled Machinery..will have a certain amount..of wear/break in ..Back Then..to me it was a cheap cost..That may have prolonged its life.
I think it may have paid off..I do not see many one time owners having vehicles..That they Use Daily..for over 29 years, Engine still strong, good compression,
Now I have decisions to make i guess...Another E40D,..Rebuild my own,..or maybe a conversion to a manual trans is that possible? I can..resurface flywheels..Change pilot and throw out bearings, clutch plate and pressure plates ..out in my sleep.
In any Case..It will cost me big anywhere i go, Even Deluxe rebuild Kits are so expensive..
Thanks for the quick reply, Any Recomendations?
And..RE=break in oil in the Trans. That was My Own decision, To Change fluid and Filter @20K miles,,,even The rear end, All newly assembled Machinery..will have a certain amount..of wear/break in ..Back Then..to me it was a cheap cost..That may have prolonged its life.
I think it may have paid off..I do not see many one time owners having vehicles..That they Use Daily..for over 29 years, Engine still strong, good compression,
Now I have decisions to make i guess...Another E40D,..Rebuild my own,..or maybe a conversion to a manual trans is that possible? I can..resurface flywheels..Change pilot and throw out bearings, clutch plate and pressure plates ..out in my sleep.
In any Case..It will cost me big anywhere i go, Even Deluxe rebuild Kits are so expensive..
Thanks for the quick reply, Any Recomendations?
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Yes, but it did exactly what you said..before The New MPL was installed...After that for like a month and a half..trans worked like new, Then The Real Fun Began..From.... Some.... To Good...To None ! In 4 months.
Odd thing is..When the Trans went out the first time..Amco rebuild @ 100K...I ran into a fella..who use to be a chief Mechanic for Florida Power's fleet of trucks,
He Told me. The E40D...Quote "I dont care what you do..synthetic oil etc...ALL Those trans. Go Out..Right about 100K"..I think The man was right!
Back when i was a kid, Before going in the military, I worked for OC Taylor..a Chrysler dealer, IT Just seemed to me..Many of their older cars..that had their ""TORQE-Flight", Transmissions in them...Worked Gracefully...ALL the way to the Junk Yard, We Had a 64 Newport Chrysler..(with the push button gears to left console) LOL The power on that tank!..You couldn't kill that old ******* ! lol
Odd thing is..When the Trans went out the first time..Amco rebuild @ 100K...I ran into a fella..who use to be a chief Mechanic for Florida Power's fleet of trucks,
He Told me. The E40D...Quote "I dont care what you do..synthetic oil etc...ALL Those trans. Go Out..Right about 100K"..I think The man was right!
Back when i was a kid, Before going in the military, I worked for OC Taylor..a Chrysler dealer, IT Just seemed to me..Many of their older cars..that had their ""TORQE-Flight", Transmissions in them...Worked Gracefully...ALL the way to the Junk Yard, We Had a 64 Newport Chrysler..(with the push button gears to left console) LOL The power on that tank!..You couldn't kill that old ******* ! lol
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Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Yeah. near the end..when i struggled to make it home..I noticed..going to neutral..than to drive..RPMS dropped..like a drain on the idle..But no forward movement
Yeah..That seems to say..clutches are slipping..from lack of oil pres or worn clutch material.
Thank you For your post..post friend
Yeah..That seems to say..clutches are slipping..from lack of oil pres or worn clutch material.
Thank you For your post..post friend
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,345
Likes: 802
From: Mi'kma'ki
A failed range sensor can cause the trans to seem to go into neutral then hard re-engagement. This is why I asked what happens when that happens if you shift in manual 1 or 2? Do you still have movement or not?
That's correct,you can remove the electrical to the trans and you should always have reverse (nothing in D) along with 2nd gear in either the manual 1 or 2 position.
That's correct,you can remove the electrical to the trans and you should always have reverse (nothing in D) along with 2nd gear in either the manual 1 or 2 position.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Thanks Post Fiend,
Looks like it needs pulling and rebuilt...Even at this decision...makes many more to come decisions...The Money right now is the master,
Do i Attempt it myself?..Get a Rebuilt ?...Have some one do it for me?...Or..The Junk yard Pickins ? Just finding some one honest these days is a Gamble enough.
I am a Partially disabled war time Vet...I live on a strict budget...Looking back..when the trans went out the first time...off the 5 year warranted Like..1997-98...It seems I did get gouged by AAmco nearly 3K...It seemed like a lot of parts for a 7-8 year old trans....A Truck I never abused.
Anyway..Any Recommendations On..where I might deal with reputable parts? or Rebuilt E40D ? If I decide to do it myself, it will be very lengthy in time..As i wouldnt purchase Nothing till the tear down is complete..Be my luck..after spending 300 bucks..to find other damaged parts in there that would send it to the garbage can.
Thank You Mark, Post Fiend, And Postman, For your Attention
Looks like it needs pulling and rebuilt...Even at this decision...makes many more to come decisions...The Money right now is the master,
Do i Attempt it myself?..Get a Rebuilt ?...Have some one do it for me?...Or..The Junk yard Pickins ? Just finding some one honest these days is a Gamble enough.
I am a Partially disabled war time Vet...I live on a strict budget...Looking back..when the trans went out the first time...off the 5 year warranted Like..1997-98...It seems I did get gouged by AAmco nearly 3K...It seemed like a lot of parts for a 7-8 year old trans....A Truck I never abused.
Anyway..Any Recommendations On..where I might deal with reputable parts? or Rebuilt E40D ? If I decide to do it myself, it will be very lengthy in time..As i wouldnt purchase Nothing till the tear down is complete..Be my luck..after spending 300 bucks..to find other damaged parts in there that would send it to the garbage can.
Thank You Mark, Post Fiend, And Postman, For your Attention
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Hey Brian, Thanks,
May I ask...What It cost you?...Did you do it with just a basic rebuild lit..(seals,friction plates,Thrust washers etc.) or did you ended up having to order additional parts ? and did you replace the TC ?
Sorry for the questions..but i cant stop counting my 1.95 till you answer LOl
Thanks
May I ask...What It cost you?...Did you do it with just a basic rebuild lit..(seals,friction plates,Thrust washers etc.) or did you ended up having to order additional parts ? and did you replace the TC ?
Sorry for the questions..but i cant stop counting my 1.95 till you answer LOl
Thanks
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,345
Likes: 802
From: Mi'kma'ki