Notices
Excursion - King of SUVs 2000 - 2005 Ford Excursion
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Delayed Accessory Relay problem

 
  #1  
Old 12-02-2018, 09:43 AM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Delayed Accessory Relay problem

2004 Ford Excursion XLT, V10 11k miles.

Accessory delay relay has a loose connection, seems to anyway. Radio clock will work (with exterior lights turned on, not visible with no exterior lights on), radio will not turn on, rear quarter windows will not work, and entertainment system will not work. If I wiggle the accessory delay relay, or the harness on the back of the fuse block, these items will all start to work for a period of time. Is it common for these to have a bad or loose connection at the relay? The rest of the windows seem to work fine all the time. I have checked all of the fuses individually and all seem to check good. I have tapped on all the relays in an effort to unstick a possibly stuck relay, I have swapped the acc relay with a known good one from another position within the block, with the same symptoms: works for a period of time, stops working, wiggle the relay or a connection on the backside of the fuse block an will start working again.

I have searched and read some threads about a cluster issue that causes some similar symptoms to this, but not exact. I just purchased the truck yesterday, it was a former state owned vehicle and did have some accessories that were mounted and removed before I bought it, but appeared to only be a radio and something behind the 2nd row seating, I don't know what either were.

I know I have a low post count, but I am here a lot and usually what I have to ask has been answered by a quick search, or what I have to contribute has already been said. Please don't judge my profile based on that. I have gotten an enormous amount of knowledge from this forum!!
Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:05 AM
pirate4x4_camo's Avatar
pirate4x4_camo
pirate4x4_camo is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,357
pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.
For some reason I recall the later year Ex’s having the solid state relay built into the cluster. Gonna have to look that one up in a wiring diagram.
 
  #3  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:32 AM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Yep, I read that and that's what I meant by a "cluster issue" but I don't think that's where the issue lies. I just tried something else, if I wiggle most any of the relays in the fuse block, it seems the issue comes and goes. Maybe the fuse block had some loose connections in it for that circuit? Hate to send it out for the shotgun repair approach and I suppose it could still be within the connection on the back of the block going to the wire harness.
 
  #4  
Old 12-02-2018, 11:18 AM
pirate4x4_camo's Avatar
pirate4x4_camo
pirate4x4_camo is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,357
pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.
Sounds more like a GEM issue from a leaking windshield.

If you pull the fuse block and GEM out of the vehicle you can inspect the terminals for corrosion. Cleaning any corrosion off the terminals will sometimes cure the issue, if not you may need a new GEM.

however if it is a cluster then you can pull it out and check for a loose connector, if that doesn’t solve it pull the unit apart and use a magnifying glass and follow the trace, a burnt trace or chip is fairly evident. Used clusters are plentiful or send yours out to be fixed.
 
  #5  
Old 12-02-2018, 04:44 PM
projectSHO89
projectSHO89 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 14,830
projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.
The 04 Excursion doesn't have a GEM module.

The instrument cluster has the logic that controls the Accessory Delay Relay (ADR) which is in the Central Junction Box (CJB). If manipulating the CJB or the relays installed in it cause the ADR to kick in and allow the radio and windows to operate, then the evidence suggests that there's an intermittent connection in that circuit (in the CJB). However, if the issue can be temporarily resolved by moving the connectors at the cluster around or if beating on the dash in the vicinity of the cluster causes it to work for a while, then I'd suspect that the cluster has the bad connection or broken solder joint.
 
  #6  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:37 PM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
The 04 Excursion doesn't have a GEM module.

The instrument cluster has the logic that controls the Accessory Delay Relay (ADR) which is in the Central Junction Box (CJB). If manipulating the CJB or the relays installed in it cause the ADR to kick in and allow the radio and windows to operate, then the evidence suggests that there's an intermittent connection in that circuit (in the CJB). However, if the issue can be temporarily resolved by moving the connectors at the cluster around or if beating on the dash in the vicinity of the cluster causes it to work for a while, then I'd suspect that the cluster has the bad connection or broken solder joint.
No, what I had said was no matter what the status of the radio is, the door windows work normally. The only windows that are affected are the rear (way back) vent windows. Also the entertainment/dvd/tv system. When the relay/wiring at fuse block is manipulated, those items will regain their function. I did try tapping/beating on the dash, but that did not produce any results, nor did I hear the clicking that others had said they heard.
Would my suspicion that there is a loose connection within the fuse block ( cjb) be the correct? I would guess that it could still be within the plug that connects at the rear of it as well.
 
  #7  
Old 12-03-2018, 01:16 AM
SmackDaddy's Avatar
SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 1,230
SmackDaddy has a great reputation on FTE.SmackDaddy has a great reputation on FTE.SmackDaddy has a great reputation on FTE.SmackDaddy has a great reputation on FTE.SmackDaddy has a great reputation on FTE.
I had to hot wire my ADR and remove the relay every time I plan on letting my truck sit fir more than a day or two because if I don’t the ADR will drain my battery because there is power running to the radio and windows. The instrument cluster contains the part that controls the ADR and the complete cluster has to be removed and sent to Circuit Board Medics and costs about $170 to be repaired. You can use any cluster but if you want to retain your odometer reading you will need to have your cluster repaired.
I’m not going for that and I’m about to wire in a switch to turn the ADR on and off.
 
  #8  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:35 AM
projectSHO89
projectSHO89 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 14,830
projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.
The cluster is not the issue as clarified in post #6. Also, since the main windows also work, the ADR itself is okay.

See attached diagram for discussion.

The output on the ADR on pin 87 is fed to two fuses, F601 which supplies the main window circuits and F42 which supplies the power vents and the radio. The F42 circuit is your problem. Pull it out and inspect the terminals of the fuse, the fuse itself, and the interior contacts that the fuse mates to. You might find that there had been an "add-a-fuse" tap used on that fuse and it stretched the contacts causing poor contact when removed. There are other possibilities, but that's the first that comes to mind.


 
Attached Images
File Type: pdf
2004_Excursion_100_1.pdf (172.3 KB, 24 views)
  #9  
Old 12-03-2018, 11:18 AM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
The cluster is not the issue as clarified in post #6. Also, since the main windows also work, the ADR itself is okay.

See attached diagram for discussion.

The output on the ADR on pin 87 is fed to two fuses, F601 which supplies the main window circuits and F42 which supplies the power vents and the radio. The F42 circuit is your problem. Pull it out and inspect the terminals of the fuse, the fuse itself, and the interior contacts that the fuse mates to. You might find that there had been an "add-a-fuse" tap used on that fuse and it stretched the contacts causing poor contact when removed. There are other possibilities, but that's the first that comes to mind.
Thats kind of what I was thinking, the truck spent the last 10 years of it like as a city environmental admin truck and there is evidence of at least a radio having been removed. I wouldn't think that someone would use one of those connectors on thr relay though, but who knows. I'm guessing the only way I fonfout for sure is to remove the box and check the terminals. I will say the add relay feels looser in it's position than the others.
Thank you for the diagram!! Can you note what fuse #'s that relay supplies?
 
  #10  
Old 12-03-2018, 11:46 AM
projectSHO89
projectSHO89 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 14,830
projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.
Can you note what fuse #'s that relay supplies?
Already did, read above.

You should be able to visually examine the fuse and relay contacts without pulling the box.
 
  #11  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:18 PM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
Already did, read above.

You should be able to visually examine the fuse and relay contacts without pulling the box.
I just love asking a question to something that has already been answered. Thanks for your help!

A bit of a new development yesterday was about 20+ cooler than the day before and no matter how much I tried wiggling and giggling I could not get that circuit to work. The previous day it worked just fine but was warmer. Not sure what, if anything, the temperature has to do with it.
 
  #12  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:24 PM
projectSHO89
projectSHO89 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 14,830
projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.projectSHO89 has a spectacular reputation.
Stuff shrinks when it's cold....
 
  #13  
Old 12-05-2018, 04:56 PM
pirate4x4_camo's Avatar
pirate4x4_camo
pirate4x4_camo is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,357
pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.pirate4x4_camo has a spectacular reputation.
projectSHO89 thanks for sticking with the issue, I like to see these things through but dont have much experience on the 04 or a factory manual for that year. ... plus you are the wire guru Reps forthcoming
 
  #14  
Old 12-05-2018, 07:24 PM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by pirate4x4_camo View Post
projectSHO89 thanks for sticking with the issue, I like to see these things through but dont have much experience on the 04 or a factory manual for that year. ... plus you are the wire guru Reps forthcoming
Exactly!! Extremely helpful!! I have another issue that I am getting ready to work on on my 02 F250 7.3. I'm sure to get a lot of help here. This place is awesome, as I stated most of my issues in past have been fixable with searches.

Next problem is that I just left for work for 4 weeks, so I won't be looking at this truck for awhile.

How do you give reps?
 
  #15  
Old 12-05-2018, 08:28 PM
danno676
danno676 is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 73
danno676 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
Stuff shrinks when it's cold....
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.