So when does it make a difference??
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 50
Your gunna jump from something you know everything about to someone elses problem, over .25 gal difference. SAY, you buy something with what you sold ur rig for. So, thats a wash. However, itll probably have a few miles on it and no record report. Because, you want to make sure that YOU done ur due diligence, you start replacing everything for the pm factor. Now, how much you got into it. Then, you need taller gears to help it. Thats another 1200.00. So, you got 2g's in ur and your now comfortable. Back to the question, how long will it take to offset the cost put forth, plus, by that time, you wont have that fuzxy good feeling about using it to tow because its up there in miles... Its like buying a commuter because of gas prices..etc. You spend 4-5 grand only to then, have more insurance payment. The diesels are good with higher miles so use the damn thing.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,344
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Timmy brings up a good point when factoring "when does it make a difference". You have to consider that a gasoline engine will reach and pass its prime service life and need a serious rebuild a lot sooner than a diesel engine if they are both taken care of properly. There is no reason why a 7.3 (probably 6.7 as well, need more data) make it to 500,000, 750,000 miles without a major rebuild. Try doing that with a gasoline engine towing the same weight across the same landscape.
So, when factoring in fuel costs, which in the southeast are pretty darn close together still, comfort and maintenance costs, don't forget to throw a crate engine or a rebuild in the costs.
If I live long enough, I may have a 2015+ 6.7 one day, but they need to prove themselves in my mind first. Until then, I will keep trucking along in my 20 year old truck (next month) just fine.
So, when factoring in fuel costs, which in the southeast are pretty darn close together still, comfort and maintenance costs, don't forget to throw a crate engine or a rebuild in the costs.
If I live long enough, I may have a 2015+ 6.7 one day, but they need to prove themselves in my mind first. Until then, I will keep trucking along in my 20 year old truck (next month) just fine.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,807
Likes: 125
From: Colorado Springs
so this thread has gone off the rails..
I was asking at what price point between diesel fuel and gas price per gallon does a gasser make more sense than diesel. In my area diesel is $3.07 and unleaded 89 octane is $2.44 or some 55 cents per gallon difference. it has
been this large difference for a while now. several years ago I remember the price difference only like .15 cents or sometimes less..
that was the main question on fuel prices for the most part.
Regarding your question, I think it more about if your towing regularly and with what... Before I bought my truck we towed my Jeep (6900#) to trails with my GF’s Jeep Commander 5.7L Hemi with a 4 spd auto transmission. We averaged 7 to 8 mpg towing through Colorado mountains, the Hemi handled it alright BUT you had to pay attention, use the paddle shifter, watch speed and temperatures. If we went to Buena Vista a 2 hour drive through 2 long steep mountain passes we had to fill up in BV.
I can pull the same load with my truck, same weight same route and average 11-13 mpg. Towing with the truck is more enjoyable, you can relax and enjoy the journey, and I can go to BV and back using slightly less than a half tank of fuel. I understand it’s not an Apple to Apple comparison. The huge fly in my ointment versus others examples is elevation! Towing at Elevation and the issues that comes with it changes everything when towing, gears, turbo vs naturally aspirated, transmission are all choices that must be considered if towing significantly above sea level.
The new gas trucks have 8 speed + transmissions better technologies but the diesels have changed too. The advantages of the 7.3 in this case is you can work on it yourself the new trucks regardless of fuel are Dealership dependent especially with the computer technologies. If you’re in a position where you can buy and trade in a new truck when it starts to have problems or fails to perform then I don’t think fuel cost is a deciding issue. If I was going to go on the road with an RV with a truck it would be a diesel regardless of fuel prices. My .02...
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 816
Likes: 7
From: Prescott, AZ
I think there are too many variables to calculate a conclusive answer simply via a mathematical formula. Unpredictable fluctuation in future fuel prices, different driving habits, styles, and purposes, the degree to which you do your own repairs/maintenance, and personal preferences are all incalculable factors - the initial question itself is too dependent on "if" this or "if" that. The benefits of one powertrain over the other are also hugely subjective in each owner's mind.
My own belief is that Diesels can be more expensive in total cost of ownership than a gasser, dependent on how long you own it; but that isn't the question you asked.
Take good care of your current rig, and in 4 years there may be a new electric F350 with onboard hydrogen fuel generator, or gasoline may drop in price dramatically as more people drive Priuses (haha).
On a side note - question for the gasser crowd: do you use 87 octane when towing, or do you fill up with the better stuff when you're going to do a long pull? If so, that changes the dynamics if you're putting in more expensive fuel that approaches the higher cost of Diesel. Of course, the flip side is, when not towing, you can use cheaper fuel...
My own belief is that Diesels can be more expensive in total cost of ownership than a gasser, dependent on how long you own it; but that isn't the question you asked.
Take good care of your current rig, and in 4 years there may be a new electric F350 with onboard hydrogen fuel generator, or gasoline may drop in price dramatically as more people drive Priuses (haha).
On a side note - question for the gasser crowd: do you use 87 octane when towing, or do you fill up with the better stuff when you're going to do a long pull? If so, that changes the dynamics if you're putting in more expensive fuel that approaches the higher cost of Diesel. Of course, the flip side is, when not towing, you can use cheaper fuel...
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
I have always used 87 for everything in my gas vehicles, the only time higher grade is necessary is if your engine calls for it from the factory or it has been tuned, turbo or supercharged, increased compression, or been modified in any other way that increased octane is needed. Basically the higher the octane rating the more resistant to combustion the fuel is, which is why forced induction or higher compression engines need a higher octane rating so you don't get pre-ignition.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,215
Likes: 94
I understand a diesel will tow a RV at a better mpg overall. for instance some diesel owners are getting 12-13 mpg and the gassers are getting 9-10 with the same RV...
Not too sure I believe that my neighbor has a loaded up gmc 1500 2wd bone stock 7-8 mpg towing a 24 ft boat to the keys
my friend has a slightly lifted ccsb 4x4 on 33s 4 mpg heavy loaded 5.4
i once had a v10 26ft straight truck and diesel make the same run the ford v10 was ultra fast for some reason and below E at the unload the diesel burned 1/4 tank on the same run. Both trucks were fully loaded.
And now they are marketing the EcoBoom can haul 11,300 lbs
its diesel all day for me! Unless you can get a brand new under warranty 2019 ...which if I could there would be a Porsche 911 in the drive way next to my 7.3 instead of 1 new truck
Not too sure I believe that my neighbor has a loaded up gmc 1500 2wd bone stock 7-8 mpg towing a 24 ft boat to the keys
my friend has a slightly lifted ccsb 4x4 on 33s 4 mpg heavy loaded 5.4
i once had a v10 26ft straight truck and diesel make the same run the ford v10 was ultra fast for some reason and below E at the unload the diesel burned 1/4 tank on the same run. Both trucks were fully loaded.
And now they are marketing the EcoBoom can haul 11,300 lbs
its diesel all day for me! Unless you can get a brand new under warranty 2019 ...which if I could there would be a Porsche 911 in the drive way next to my 7.3 instead of 1 new truck
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,807
Likes: 125
From: Colorado Springs
I understand a diesel will tow a RV at a better mpg overall. for instance some diesel owners are getting 12-13 mpg and the gassers are getting 9-10 with the same RV...
Not too sure I believe that my neighbor has a loaded up gmc 1500 2wd bone stock 7-8 mpg towing a 24 ft boat to the keys
my friend has a slightly lifted ccsb 4x4 on 33s 4 mpg heavy loaded 5.4
i once had a v10 26ft straight truck and diesel make the same run the ford v10 was ultra fast for some reason and below E at the unload the diesel burned 1/4 tank on the same run. Both trucks were fully loaded.
And now they are marketing the EcoBoom can haul 11,300 lbs
its diesel all day for me! Unless you can get a brand new under warranty 2019 ...which if I could there would be a Porsche 911 in the drive way next to my 7.3 instead of 1 new truck
Not too sure I believe that my neighbor has a loaded up gmc 1500 2wd bone stock 7-8 mpg towing a 24 ft boat to the keys
my friend has a slightly lifted ccsb 4x4 on 33s 4 mpg heavy loaded 5.4
i once had a v10 26ft straight truck and diesel make the same run the ford v10 was ultra fast for some reason and below E at the unload the diesel burned 1/4 tank on the same run. Both trucks were fully loaded.
And now they are marketing the EcoBoom can haul 11,300 lbs
its diesel all day for me! Unless you can get a brand new under warranty 2019 ...which if I could there would be a Porsche 911 in the drive way next to my 7.3 instead of 1 new truck
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 13
From: Glendive, MT
Just doing some quick math. Over 100k miles, the gas engine will burn $1528 more than a diesel. That was using your fuel prices and MPG from the first post.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,215
Likes: 94
Ohh yea I hear ya on that Colorado either have to get a used one and roll the dice or a new one and trade up when the warranty is almost done. Plus not to many MAN-ual cars on the road these days not sure what other car I’d want to drive in the price range of the new trucks. Sure a nice car but then it leads back to why not get another truck in the fleet instead lol
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 15
From: Temperance, MI
You can always do what I did. I bought a fusion that averages about 30 mpg for when I don't need a truck. I really only needed my Cummins for pulling my wife's mega truck. The truck sat 95% of the time. I came to a conclusion to sell my Cummins for a high dollar and buy a cheap 20 year old gas dually and have plenty of money left over. On average for me in my case I can afford to have an expensive diesel sitting there and a commuter car. If you do go that option you can always park the truck, call the insurance company and tell them you put it in storage. At that point the insurance cost of the truck is minimal and it is still covered if something out of your hands happens. You'll just have to call the insurance company when you need to drive it.
I agree a diesel pulls a lot better then most gassers I've driven but for me the initial cost plus the maintnance cost plus the amount of pulling I need to do. A gasser does just fine, a little slower, a little less efficient but initial cost plus everything else to me makes no sense.
I agree a diesel pulls a lot better then most gassers I've driven but for me the initial cost plus the maintnance cost plus the amount of pulling I need to do. A gasser does just fine, a little slower, a little less efficient but initial cost plus everything else to me makes no sense.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 145
From: San Diego, CA
You have to factor more than fuel price into it. Outside the common truck items that are going to wear out, the engine-specific stuff is going to add to the time to "break even". 15 qts of oil every change, 8 gallons of cooling, etc., add up over time compared to a gasser. Add to that the additional weight of the diesel will wear out front end components faster (the 7.3L weighs 1005 lbs dry).
I was never in the game from a cost-benefit analysis. If that was case I would have stayed with an F-150. Any thoughts of comparable costs went out the window for me over the last 3 years of oil leak repairs. I have my truck because I want it. My truck has its own personality and I can go out in the parking lot and find it without issue. I don't have to look through a sea of similar trucks and click my key fob to see which one beeps at me. To me that's priceless.
Just my .02
I was never in the game from a cost-benefit analysis. If that was case I would have stayed with an F-150. Any thoughts of comparable costs went out the window for me over the last 3 years of oil leak repairs. I have my truck because I want it. My truck has its own personality and I can go out in the parking lot and find it without issue. I don't have to look through a sea of similar trucks and click my key fob to see which one beeps at me. To me that's priceless.
Just my .02
Tuned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 305
Likes: 14
Brian42 You hit it right on the head. When I shopped for my rig some 10+ years ago I was looking for my last truck. I was still in my late forties then. I wanted something that would last me until I was too old and feeble to crawl in it. I have a Buick for comfortable commuting and a Harley for fun to share the riding time with so my truck is not my only source of 'motovation'.
Being that it is not uncommon for a diesel to last an incredible amount of miles that was first on the list. Second, it needed to be a 4WD because of how and where I drive if it wasn't a diesel would get stuck a lot. Third, I wanted a crew cab, having 4 doors is awesome. Fourth, Superduties look dag gum good. Fifth, I don't like vehicle payments. Especially when I could buy a second home/cabin with that kind of coin.
Squirrel!
Being that it is not uncommon for a diesel to last an incredible amount of miles that was first on the list. Second, it needed to be a 4WD because of how and where I drive if it wasn't a diesel would get stuck a lot. Third, I wanted a crew cab, having 4 doors is awesome. Fourth, Superduties look dag gum good. Fifth, I don't like vehicle payments. Especially when I could buy a second home/cabin with that kind of coin.
Squirrel!
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 50
Knock on wood
Ill "nut" up..but outside the clutch reolacements... Whats there to replace? Bought at 98k and now with 285k, and thats with 120k of veggie run'n thru her, THEE biggest asset has bern fuel. IF, not for the pm which ive moved that over to the 02, my l99 has had nothing but normal 5k-10k oil change intervals and tires....i only changed axle ratio cuz i wanted to...maybe i got lucky. But, only thing shehas now is the hutch mod and ww1 and ill take her anywhere(would have towed anything with the 4.10s)...all stock(no chippy)
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 190
From: Cambs, England
Here in the UK gas/diesel prices have been very close for the last few years, this last week we've seen gas prices fall by around 10%, diesel has hardly moved. Unless gas were to be 25% less I can't see it having any impact on vehicle choices, personally I prefer the low end torque for towing & the better economy of a diesel. Is it going to continue or are the prices just a market fluctuation?
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 145
From: San Diego, CA
Even though parts are not incredibly expensive compared to newer vehicles, if you don't do your own work you're paying $150/hr (that's the going rate 'round these here parts) to replace a $2 o-ring. I know I've been jaded by the operating cost of my truck since the only person I've paid to wrench on my truck is me...and I only cost a couple of beers per hour.
I never thought I'd come out ahead in the wallet, but I do love my truck. Had I not done my research and known what I was getting into, though, and I might have been in an EcoBoost by now...