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What are the odds...

  #1  
Old 11-15-2018, 09:53 PM
Bombero
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What are the odds...

So I’m a Ford guy, currently in a 2013 F-150 crewcab 4wd. I’ve had about 6-7 Ford pickups, a couple of them F-250s. I’m not opposed to other brands, but I’ve always come back to Ford. I think they’re a good package of drive train, fit and finish, and value.

I’m looking at a F-250 or 350 early next year. I always order my trucks, and wait the 8 weeks or so.

My question or concern is with the death wobble or other suspension issues. I never lift the trucks, but I always place a small leveling kit to eliminate the rake.

So what percentage of Super Duty’s are having issues with the wobble? One out of a thousand? One of out a hundred? One out of ten or five? I’ll roll the dice for a $70K truck for 1 out of a thousand odds, but not so much for 1 out of five odds.

Any reliable stats out there?
 
  #2  
Old 11-15-2018, 10:07 PM
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https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1562327-death-wobble-results.html

FWIW, I've had my 2019 Lariat Ultimate 6.7 CCSB SRW FX4 for about 1,100 miles and it drives like a dream. No wobble.

Also, haven't filled out the survey yet.
 
  #3  
Old 11-15-2018, 10:17 PM
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There is a ton of these trucks on the road if it was 1 out of 5 it would be a recall or something by now. I only have about 7k miles on my 2017. No death wobble. Never even had death wobble on my old 77 f150 with 4 inch suspension lift and 36in tires. I have experienced some bump steer hitting a pothole in 2017 but it came right back to normal.
 
  #4  
Old 11-15-2018, 10:18 PM
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Timtanium, I looked at your referral page and I agree with one of the questions on there. It’s unscientific in that owners who have not had any suspension issues probably won’t submit to the survey.

I hope that’s the case because right now, the pie chart shows that 33% of survey respondents have had suspension issues. I really hope that 33% of all 2017-2019 Super Duty owners aren’t having suspension problems and Ford isn’t doing a recall!
 
  #5  
Old 11-15-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bombero View Post
Timtanium, I looked at your referral page and I agree with one of the questions on there. Itís unscientific in that owners who have not had any suspension issues probably wonít submit to the survey.

I hope thatís the case because right now, the pie chart shows that 33% of survey respondents have had suspension issues. I really hope that 33% of all 2017-2019 Super Duty owners arenít having suspension problems and Ford isnít doing a recall!
Yeah, I definitely think there is selection bias negatively skewing the results. In any case, it looks like those that have had it have had success correcting it with some caster adjustments. Some go with aftermarket steering stabilizers but that seems like a bandaid to me.

I say go for it, you won't regret it! Good luck in any case.
 
  #6  
Old 11-15-2018, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bombero View Post
Timtanium, I looked at your referral page and I agree with one of the questions on there. Itís unscientific in that owners who have not had any suspension issues probably wonít submit to the survey.

I hope thatís the case because right now, the pie chart shows that 33% of survey respondents have had suspension issues. I really hope that 33% of all 2017-2019 Super Duty owners arenít having suspension problems and Ford isnít doing a recall!
Most of the affected trucks (78%) are 2017s and the 2018s affected are most likely the early builds; I think the TSB that is out actually calls out the 2017 and early 2018 Ford trucks so thinking the issue has been identified and being corrected. The 2019s should be good to go and to be honest I really like my truck ('18 6.2 4x4 SRW CC) it looks awesome and seems to have all the power needed, good creature comforts. I am leery about this issue for now and will keep the condition in mind as the miles increase but if it happens once the truck will sit at the dealers until it is fixed (TSB completed).

I would go test drive one and pull out the wallet...
As with any survey the data out is only as good as the data in but some info is better than none IMO.
 
  #7  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:22 AM
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I have a 2019 F-350 4x4 CCLB 6.7L on order to arrive in December. I am VERY concerned about the problem with these models termed DEATH WOBBLE (DW) by people who own the trucks and have experienced it. Ford has termed it "sustained steering wheel oscillation" (SSWO). I'll refrain from saying what I want to about that 'sugar coated' label.

I have been doing a lot of reading about this problem. I will be putting the finishing touches on a detailed summary of my readings soon. In the meantime, it appears to me that Ford has NOT solved the DW/SSWO problem through the 2018 model year. And I don't believe that the 2019's have been on the road long enough, as in accumulating the common number of miles before it happens, to determine if, more like WHEN, they'll experience it. Contrary to some people's opinions, I see no confirming evidence that TSB 18-2268, Ford's designated solution to the problem, has been effective. In too many cases it hasn't even mitigated the problem, which I fear is all that Ford is hoping they can achieve. I'll save you the trouble of looking up the definition of the word 'mitigate' - make less severe, serious or painful. On the contrary, too many owners have reported re-occurrence of DW/SSWO after implementation of the repairs contained in the TSB.

I would like to believe that a problem such as DW/SSWO can be corrected such that it is completely solved. I would certainly like to have confidence that mechanical automotive engineers can develop an understanding of the cause of the problem so that they can create a definitive solution. I am not convinced that this has occurred to date. Ford's TSB addresses only two things - the steering linkage damper (what some call a steering stabilizer I believe, essentially a shock absorber across the front of the steering system) and caster adjustment. On the other hand, Super Duty truck owners and Ford mechanics have discovered several other issues with the front end and steering linkage. More than one owner has been told by a service advisor (you ain't usually allowed to talk to the mechanic) after examination of their Super Duty following the occurrence of DW/SSWO that "the TIE-ROD BALL JOINTS are shot at 8,000 miles or the DRAG LINK connections are loose or the TRACK BAR connections are loose and/or worn out." And still too many truck owners re-experience DW/SSWO after the TSB and/or several of these other things are implemented, replaced and repaired. I truly wish I were an engineer capable of evaluating all the mechanical elements that make up a Ford Super Duty front end. I desire even more that I could then develop a solution to the horrifying, and soon-to-be devastating and disastrous, occurrence of Death Wobble and Sustained Steering Wheel Oscillation.

I certainly hope that the problem does not exacerbate into the disastrous results of the last major problem that Ford, in conjunction with Firestone/Bridgestone, encountered before they were forced to figure out the nature of the problem. About 20 years ago there were a multitude of rollover accidents caused by tires blowing out. In this disastrous period, "Two hundred and seventy one people were killed and 823 people were injured in the United States as a result of these failures.[51] The large majority of accidents took place in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida. An additional 46 people were killed in Venezuela. A large number of lawsuits were filed against both Ford and Firestone." Here's a link to a very detailed story on this disastrous debacle if you care to read about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firest...re_controversy.

For those of you who think this is blowing the DW/SSWO problem out of proportion, consider that there has been one reported significant injury to a driver's shoulder that required surgery to repair, this instance being reported in October 2018 to the NHTSA. Of greater concern, the number of close calls and near misses are accumulating at a frightening pace. Drivers are telling stories of their trucks "jumping" across multiple lanes", "swerving off the road and ending up in a ditch 40 to 50 feet off the roadway", "steering wheels jerking side-to-side with such force that only a strong man could hang on" and the one I have come to like the best - "I am NOT letting my wife drive this dangerous truck." That last one would be funny if the reason wasn't so serious. It greatly disturbs me to say the following given the truck that I am soon to be driving, but it is only a matter of time before fatalities occur. Lest you doubt this dire forecast, take the time to read the reports in the following link, most of which are best described as horrifying: Ford F-350 general Steering Problems - part 1.

Now I'm sure that there will be multitudes of Ford devotees who will chime in and defend the company against my protestations that the company has NOT identified the cause of the problem, has not developed a solution, and most certainly is not interested in alerting the public, particularly Super Duty truck owners, of this seriously dangerous potential problem. Consider the huge number of Super Duty truck owners who do not read this forum; they are most likely in the dark. I certainly would be if I had not stumbled across this forum during my research on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks. I doubt that Ford is placing WARNING STICKERS on the visors such as they do for other things that are much less dangerous to one's well being.

I for one hope that my truck, and me or my wife, never experiences DW/SSWO. The existing evidence strongly suggests that it is not something that afflicts every Super Duty truck. So maybe we'll be fortunate. At the least, we will know what is happening and how best to survive it should it rear its ugly head IN OUR FACES.
 
  #8  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Hjabernathy View Post
I have a 2019 F-350 4x4 CCLB 6.7L on order to arrive in December. I am VERY concerned about the problem with these models termed DEATH WOBBLE (DW) by people who own the trucks and have experienced it. Ford has termed it "sustained steering wheel oscillation" (SSWO). I'll refrain from saying what I want to about that 'sugar coated' label.

I have been doing a lot of reading about this problem. I will be putting the finishing touches on a detailed summary of my readings soon. In the meantime, it appears to me that Ford has NOT solved the DW/SSWO problem through the 2018 model year. And I don't believe that the 2019's have been on the road long enough, as in accumulating the common number of miles before it happens, to determine if, more like WHEN, they'll experience it. Contrary to some people's opinions, I see no confirming evidence that TSB 18-2268, Ford's designated solution to the problem, has been effective. In too many cases it hasn't even mitigated the problem, which I fear is all that Ford is hoping they can achieve. I'll save you the trouble of looking up the definition of the word 'mitigate' - make less severe, serious or painful. On the contrary, too many owners have reported re-occurrence of DW/SSWO after implementation of the repairs contained in the TSB.

I would like to believe that a problem such as DW/SSWO can be corrected such that it is completely solved. I would certainly like to have confidence that mechanical automotive engineers can develop an understanding of the cause of the problem so that they can create a definitive solution. I am not convinced that this has occurred to date. Ford's TSB addresses only two things - the steering linkage damper (what some call a steering stabilizer I believe, essentially a shock absorber across the front of the steering system) and caster adjustment. On the other hand, Super Duty truck owners and Ford mechanics have discovered several other issues with the front end and steering linkage. More than one owner has been told by a service advisor (you ain't usually allowed to talk to the mechanic) after examination of their Super Duty following the occurrence of DW/SSWO that "the TIE-ROD BALL JOINTS are shot at 8,000 miles or the DRAG LINK connections are loose or the TRACK BAR connections are loose and/or worn out." And still too many truck owners re-experience DW/SSWO after the TSB and/or several of these other things are implemented, replaced and repaired. I truly wish I were an engineer capable of evaluating all the mechanical elements that make up a Ford Super Duty front end. I desire even more that I could then develop a solution to the horrifying, and soon-to-be devastating and disastrous, occurrence of Death Wobble and Sustained Steering Wheel Oscillation.

I certainly hope that the problem does not exacerbate into the disastrous results of the last major problem that Ford, in conjunction with Firestone/Bridgestone, encountered before they were forced to figure out the nature of the problem. About 20 years ago there were a multitude of rollover accidents caused by tires blowing out. In this disastrous period, "Two hundred and seventy one people were killed and 823 people were injured in the United States as a result of these failures.[51] The large majority of accidents took place in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida. An additional 46 people were killed in Venezuela. A large number of lawsuits were filed against both Ford and Firestone." Here's a link to a very detailed story on this disastrous debacle if you care to read about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firest...re_controversy.

For those of you who think this is blowing the DW/SSWO problem out of proportion, consider that there has been one reported significant injury to a driver's shoulder that required surgery to repair, this instance being reported in October 2018 to the NHTSA. Of greater concern, the number of close calls and near misses are accumulating at a frightening pace. Drivers are telling stories of their trucks "jumping" across multiple lanes", "swerving off the road and ending up in a ditch 40 to 50 feet off the roadway", "steering wheels jerking side-to-side with such force that only a strong man could hang on" and the one I have come to like the best - "I am NOT letting my wife drive this dangerous truck." That last one would be funny if the reason wasn't so serious. It greatly disturbs me to say the following given the truck that I am soon to be driving, but it is only a matter of time before fatalities occur. Lest you doubt this dire forecast, take the time to read the reports in the following link, most of which are best described as horrifying: Ford F-350 general Steering Problems - part 1.

Now I'm sure that there will be multitudes of Ford devotees who will chime in and defend the company against my protestations that the company has NOT identified the cause of the problem, has not developed a solution, and most certainly is not interested in alerting the public, particularly Super Duty truck owners, of this seriously dangerous potential problem. Consider the huge number of Super Duty truck owners who do not read this forum; they are most likely in the dark. I certainly would be if I had not stumbled across this forum during my research on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks. I doubt that Ford is placing WARNING STICKERS on the visors such as they do for other things that are much less dangerous to one's well being.

I for one hope that my truck, and me or my wife, never experiences DW/SSWO. The existing evidence strongly suggests that it is not something that afflicts every Super Duty truck. So maybe we'll be fortunate. At the least, we will know what is happening and how best to survive it should it rear its ugly head IN OUR FACES.
WOW thanks for the info and please feel free to continue enlightening us with your readings. One thing that is apparent is you could have "mitigated" you being subjected to this entire situation by not having purchased a 2019 Ford... I hope you never experience this either but please take the survey if you do...
 
  #9  
Old 11-16-2018, 06:36 AM
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I have over 14k miles on my 2017 and have never experienced the condition.
 
  #10  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:02 AM
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2017

17 f250 6.2 CC 4x4 short bed lifted 6Ē 35,000 miles. Iíve never had the death wobble. My wife drives the truck to work everyday and hits every pot hole along the way with no DW.
 
  #11  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:21 AM
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08-2017 built F-250 PSD with 22,000 miles and not a hint of death wobble here. I dont understand how some have it and others dont. With the ones that had loose/wore out parts, I wonder if they came from the factory loose hence the death wobble. Is the dealership supposed to go over suspension/steering parts to make sure they are torqued to spec when they do their PDI's?

Just a thought...
 
  #12  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:39 AM
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I've had a 2017 and now a 2019. I haven't experienced death wobble with either. The 2017 did have a front end knock that had parts on order when I traded it in. The steering also felt a lot looser on the day I drove it to trade in after 18k miles than the day I drove it home. I wouldn't be concerned about the results of any survey on here. People that have experienced death wobble are more prone to fill those things out. Not to mention this forum represents a small percentage of owners and a lot of people end up on forums only after experiencing problems.
 
  #13  
Old 11-16-2018, 08:20 AM
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I guess I'm lucky to still be alive after driving my SD 21k trouble-free miles hauling a heavy 5th wheel all over the country. I also get a kick out of the term 'death wobble'.... very scary....cuz people are dying all over the country from it. Sorta like the evil 'assault weapons' label for a simple semi automatic rifle.
 
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by blueglide View Post
I guess I'm lucky to still be alive after driving my SD 21k trouble-free miles hauling a heavy 5th wheel all over the country. I also get a kick out of the term 'death wobble'.... very scary....cuz people are dying all over the country from it. Sorta like the evil 'assault weapons' label for a simple semi automatic rifle.
If you had ever experienced it, I think you would have a different take on it. Experienced it in my 99 Land Rover Discovery, scary as hell!!! You literally have to almost come to a stop before the wobble stops. When your just cruising down the Interstate and hit an expansion joint and your car starts shaking violently all of a sudden and won't stop, it scares the crap out of you!
 
  #15  
Old 11-16-2018, 11:43 AM
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My dad has a 2006 F250, I just sold my 2006 F350 and will be receiving my 2019 F350 in a few days. My dad had a 2002 F250 previously. He said he got the death wobble once in the 2002 F250 after hitting a pothole. He said it's never happened in the 2006 F250. I never had it happen in my 2006 F350. Both the 2006 Super Duty trucks have 160,000 miles on them. The 2002 F250 had less than 20,000 when he got his death wobble. It sounds like some people get it and some don't.
 

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