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If you want a real world breakdown of gas vs diesel costs, I did one to prove my "diesels are the only truck to own and you're gonna regret your 6.2L" brother.
The below chart shows matching F250's listed in my signature gas and diesel versions.
Taking into account, 15,000 miles per year, initial purchase cost, fuel costs, MPG (referenced each engine on Fuelly.com with 3+million mile MPG on each engine), 5k mile oil changes, 10k mile fuel filter, 1 gal per 1k miles DEF and resale value after 12 years below are the results. This allso accounts for matching initial downpayments, matching APR, 6 year loan and difference in payment for gas vs diesel.
This does not take into account general maintenance that will be required during the life of the truck such as brakes, tires, etc. Those are the same regardless of powerplant. What the numbers do not show is the potential cost of emissions controls and other unique diesel related repairs that a standard V8 gasser wont have. I did this study when replacing my '11 Ecoboost with 72k miles....that destroyed its exhaust manifolds.....because the turbo waste gates failed to relieve pressure......because Ford said it was a Doozy of a problem....
Putting the upfront and resale issues aside, the way I look at it is this - what are the chances that I can put 250K miles on it without a major repair bill? Modern gas engines have much better machining tolerances, lubrication, cleaner ignition and more power than previous generations and should go the distance with just routine maintenance. Diesel engines themselves are certainly durable but the real problem is the complex emission systems. I just don't have confidence that I could get 250K miles without an expensive fuel/emission related failure.
This is why I went back to a gasser from my previous 2016 Cummins. 8k miles on the ODO and it was in the shop for emissions issues...
After over three million miles and many of those in diesels, I ran the numbers AGAIN when I bought my last 2017 Super Duty 6.7L diesel. UNLESS you tow weights worthy of the smoker, or drive high miles (which I used to), or WANT a diesel, its not really a cost savings of any kind... even at resale time.
My last spreadsheets took into account EVERYTHING from payments (including as identical trucks as possible with the only payment difference the cost of the diesel), fuel costs and the associated variance over seasons, def usage, antifreeze testing and associated changes and flushes, periodic fuel filter changes, winter fuel additives, oil and filter changes, insurance costs, and so on. All it proved was the gasser will still be the cheaper route in the long run banking on no diesel repairs or failures, and the realistic diesel mpg of 17mpg, not the bogus 21mpg crap so many tout as reality.
At the end of the day, we can all spin our figures to make our choice believable, and justify our need or want for a diesel. When I see diesel over $1.00 more per gallon right now, look at the left-over barrels of drain oil I have left from my last 6.7L, and don't smell with diesel from stepping in the ponds drivers leave at the pumps, I actually feel good about my current gasser. Then, next month, I'll get the diesel bug again, and start Ouija Boarding a new spreadsheet to justify my next diesel,but well know, you wanna play (with diesel), you're gonna pay. Unless you tow,it's a waste. Plain and simple.
Putting the upfront and resale issues aside, the way I look at it is this - what are the chances that I can put 250K miles on it without a major repair bill? Modern gas engines have much better machining tolerances, lubrication, cleaner ignition and more power than previous generations and should go the distance with just routine maintenance. Diesel engines themselves are certainly durable but the real problem is the complex emission systems. I just don't have confidence that I could get 250K miles without an expensive fuel/emission related failure.
Couldn't have said it any more clearly than this. The emissions on the new diesels ruin the truck. Gas power really does make sense if not REALLY needing to tow over 15k every day. Among several other reasons to choose gas power on the next order.
My last Superduty was a diesel, 2002, 7.3. Trouble free for 100k and 11 years. At the time I owned it we owned heavy boats that were towed in the summer. Doubt I broke even after paying about 3,500 for the diesel option when I sold the truck in 2013.
Just ordered a 2019 gasser with 4:30’s. I’ll never own another diesel again.
X2 on the diesel payload issue. I looked at a new 2014 F250 CC with diesel and it had a yellow sticker payload listed at 1300 lbs! My hitch weight would be about 800 lbs, leaving a payload for passengers and gear of 500 lbs. I then looked at the gas CC which had a payload of 3300 lbs. My trailer only weighs about 6.5K loaded so it was a no brainer. More payload, less maintenance.
X2 on the diesel payload issue. I looked at a new 2014 F250 CC with diesel and it had a yellow sticker payload listed at 1300 lbs! My hitch weight would be about 800 lbs, leaving a payload for passengers and gear of 500 lbs. I then looked at the gas CC which had a payload of 3300 lbs. My trailer only weighs about 6.5K loaded so it was a no brainer. More payload, less maintenance.
Yeah, it's pretty much a 900 lb hit. F250 diesel makes no sense to me whatsoever.
X2 on the diesel payload issue. I looked at a new 2014 F250 CC with diesel and it had a yellow sticker payload listed at 1300 lbs! My hitch weight would be about 800 lbs, leaving a payload for passengers and gear of 500 lbs. I then looked at the gas CC which had a payload of 3300 lbs. My trailer only weighs about 6.5K loaded so it was a no brainer. More payload, less maintenance.
I tried explaining this to a dealer today and he gave me the sad look like I am a misguided fool and he just wasn't interested in doing a truck order if it wasn't a diesel. He told me no one wants to buy a gasser with 4.30s and they could not sell that truck on their lot. Bluebonnet Ford in New Braunfels TX.
If you want a real world breakdown of gas vs diesel costs, I did one to prove my "diesels are the only truck to own and you're gonna regret your 6.2L" brother.
The below chart shows matching F250's listed in my signature gas and diesel versions.
Taking into account, 15,000 miles per year, initial purchase cost, fuel costs, MPG (referenced each engine on Fuelly.com with 3+million mile MPG on each engine), 5k mile oil changes, 10k mile fuel filter, 1 gal per 1k miles DEF and resale value after 12 years below are the results. This allso accounts for matching initial downpayments, matching APR, 6 year loan and difference in payment for gas vs diesel.
This does not take into account general maintenance that will be required during the life of the truck such as brakes, tires, etc. Those are the same regardless of powerplant. What the numbers do not show is the potential cost of emissions controls and other unique diesel related repairs that a standard V8 gasser wont have. I did this study when replacing my '11 Ecoboost with 72k miles....that destroyed its exhaust manifolds.....because the turbo waste gates failed to relieve pressure......because Ford said it was a Doozy of a problem....
I made a similar spreadsheet in Excel. My initial inputs were using a fuel cost delta of $.50/gallon, but I have now noticed that diesel is nearly at, or at times OVER, $1/gal more expensive. Realizing that we get perhaps 50% (at best) back on the initial expense for a diesel engine option, and given that I only drive my truck perhaps 7k miles a year, it would take me DECADES to make a diesel's fuel savings pay off the ROI. Literally DECADES; not an exaggeration. Heck - It will either be wrecked or traded out of boredom before that ever happens. And that's presuming the diesel never has any major malfunctions that I'd have to pay for, over those decades of ownership? Ha! Right ... like that's realistic. A 6.2L will be FAR cheaper to maintain over the long term.
Now, to be fair, and without trying to induce the topic of world politics into this, we have to admit that gas prices are not going to stay this low forever; something will cause a spike. But typically, the cost of raw crude fuel will affect both gas and diesel fairly equally. I remember in 2008 when gas was $4/gal, diesel was approaching $5/gal. While the figures do shift a bit, they still will always favor a diesel for LOTs of annual miles, or favor a gas engine for lower annual use. This is just the nature of the beast.
I had a 2006 Dmax; I liked it. I bought it because I "wanted" a diesel. After 12 years, I was ready for a new truck. I wanted back into a Ford. But today's higher diesel fuel costs, higher diesel engine costs, higher diesel maintenance cost, cannot ever tempt me to get another diesel. I don't "need" a diesel; not now. Nor do I want one now, either.
A 6.2L engine paired with the 4.30 gears puts nearly as much thrust force to the pavement as does the 7.3L PSD with 3.73 gears. Today's gas 6.2L is a far cry from the old Windsor and Lima engines, and even better than the venerable 6.8L. It used to be a few decades ago that if you wanted to pull any amount of serious weight, you NEEDED a diesel. But that's be shifted now. What was "heavy towing" in 2001 isn't the same today. Today's SD gas trucks can pull as much, or more, than earlier gen diesels. And today's diesels, can pull, well just about a small house down the block.
...when they started making diesels quieter and cleaner (sans the diesel trademark smoke and scent) it merely became about capabilities...
Actually no it is not just about capabilities at all. It is about those emissions they stick everyone with. Common sense would tell anyone that putting raw diesel exhaust into the intake of a diesel engine is an incredibly STUPID THING TO DO. So the cost to buy a diesel is now approaching $10k over that of a gasser. Then everyone wants top delete the emissions which costs around another $3k give or take. Which then makes the vehicle illegal to drive on public highways. And could potentially destroy the resale value of the truck upon trade in time as well. Some say that is BS and some dealers have told me straight up that if they get a deleted truck as trade they have to put it on auction for $9k because technically LEGALLY it is an illegal truck to drive on public highways and roads, therefore they cannot give proper trade in value for it and cannot sell it on their used lot. Is that true or not I don't know BUT I do know that is a risk I personally am not willing to take.
Secondly is what happens when those hateful emissions take a crap right after the warranty is done. I knew a guy who got hit with around $12k in expenses out of pocket to fix that crap and he was not a happy camper at all. Sure an extended warranty can be purchased, but at a high cost. Or the truck can just be traded in every few years before the warranty runs out so that is another option, again at a high cost and a perpetual truck payment. Which if it is a depreciable part of a business may not be a bad thing at all. But if it is an individual it is really not good to hold that truck past warranty and any solution is going to be very expensive.
So just how badly do you really need (want) a diesel?
I would say most people WANT a diesel since that is what the majority is buying. They can have them. I'd never keep one out of warranty EVER since my pockets are not that deep nor do I want to swap rigs every few years. I see a lot of diesels towing 5 to 7K pounds. A Tundra can do that all day long. I hear folks say " I tow heavy" and when I ask what heavy is it's 10-12K pounds. I just nod and smile. Sorry but that isn't "heavy" and you tow that, what, 5 times a year? But hey someone has to buy them and keep the economy and technicians going.
I would say most people WANT a diesel since that is what the majority is buying. They can have them. I'd never keep one out of warranty EVER since my pockets are not that deep nor do I want to swap rigs every few years. I see a lot of diesels towing 5 to 7K pounds. A Tundra can do that all day long. I hear folks say " I tow heavy" and when I ask what heavy is it's 10-12K pounds. I just nod and smile. Sorry but that isn't "heavy" and you tow that, what, 5 times a year? But hey someone has to buy them and keep the economy and technicians going.
Yes that was part of my point. What was "heavy" 20 years ago ain't so heavy today.
An F150 properly equipped today is rated to tow slightly MORE than my 2006 GM Duramax 3500!
An F250 properly equipped today with a gas engine can tow WELL MORE than my 2006 GM Duramax 3500.
An F350/F450 properly equipped today with a diesel engine can tow an INSANE AMOUNT MORE, that would make my 2006 Duramax cringe and hide for cover.
Lots of folks shop the "manly" factor; getting a diesel just because they want one. That's OK for them. Heck it did it back in 2006 as well.
But now, with kids in college and other costs, I have to be more responsible with my money. I don't buy a tool and try to fit it into the task. Rather, I assess the task and then buy the right tool for the job.
I'm not saying a diesel is always a bad choice; some folks can easily justify the true need for one via huge loads or mass amounts of annual travel.
What I'm saying a diesel is a foolish choice for many folks today because they don't tow anywhere near the trucks limit, use them as daily drivers to commute into a parking lot, and then wonder why the costs eat them alive ...
To each his own.
I only want people who are on the cusp of getting a diesel to be honest with themselves and then they will be much happier with their decision later down the road. Everyone whom gets a diesel is happy in the first year, but only those who really NEED a diesel are happy 5 years down the road or longer. There are LOTS of diesel trucks in my area that are 4-6 years old sitting in used car lots because of belated buyers remorse. The long term cost of ownership combined with the hassle of extra maintenance issues just didn't turn out as great as they were convinced by the sales person it would be.
You guys are all over it. I swear that the majority of the diesel owners hitting the boards are Wanters, not Needers. Not picking on anyone specific, but most guys I know who need diesels are busters who are working more than the time they have to come to the web and talk diesels because it's a hobby.
After driving millions of miles in diesels, I'm in an F150 and don't need the headaches commonly associated with smokers anymore. Yes, many need them, but now a days, the pay ratings on diesels should drop substantially since most only cart around pride, ego, and truck nutz.
But hey someone has to buy them and keep the economy and technicians going.