What would you do?
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
He's already got a good short block, no sense in looking for a used roller 351. A roller cam and link bar lifters are cheap insurance against cam failures from wiped lobes and poorly machined off shore lifters.. Good used SBF heads can still be found for far less than new ones. Or if he just wants to wake that engine up some, pull the E7 heads and do some home port work on them, remove the Thermactor bumps, open the exhaust port walls and roof to match a header gasket, do some bowl blending, then have a valve job done and mill them .040 afterwards to give it a bump in compression.. Good off the shelf cams are a dime a dozen, keeping the lifts down to around .500 and the durations @.050 to no more than 225* Then bolt on a used high rise dual plane intake like an RPM Air gap top it with a 750 cfm vacuum secondary carb. Add headers and a free flowing exhaust. All this can be done for less than $2500
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,293
Likes: 47
From: South central, Minnesota
He's already got a good short block, no sense in looking for a used roller 351. A roller cam and link bar lifters are cheap insurance against cam failures from wiped lobes and poorly machined off shore lifters.. Good used SBF heads can still be found for far less than new ones. Or if he just wants to wake that engine up some, pull the E7 heads and do some home port work on them, remove the Thermactor bumps, open the exhaust port walls and roof to match a header gasket, do some bowl blending, then have a valve job done and mill them .040 afterwards to give it a bump in compression.. Good off the shelf cams are a dime a dozen, keeping the lifts down to around .500 and the durations @.050 to no more than 225* Then bolt on a used high rise dual plane intake like an RPM Air gap top it with a 750 cfm vacuum secondary carb. Add headers and a free flowing exhaust. All this can be done for less than $2500
Yes you can find used heads. But you are always taking a chance with used parts. And you have be ready to have to do a valve job, guides, milling if they end up being warped and possibly valve springs if they don't match up to what the cam he chooses needs.
My thinking is he has the budget. Aftermarket heads will give him the biggest increase in power for the $$. That's why I would get them while he had the budget to do so, new or used. Now me, I'm a poor boy with way too many projects so I grabbed a pair of cheap junk yard 3 bar GT40's. I'm going to port them rebuild them. Drill out the head bolt holes ( if they need it ) , add rocker studs, push rod guide plates and some Howard's roller rockers. I was looking for some early D0OE Windsor heads but found these first. They are better then the E7's & still a fraction of what even used aftermarket heads run. But I'm also realistic in knowing they will never perform to the level of a good pair of aftermarket heads.
The cheapest new roller cam I could find was the Ford Performance letter cams for $200. That's a lot of dimes. Yes you could go with a used one. But you have to be really patient. I've been watching for used rollers and the ones I've found are still going for around $180. And again you are taking a chance on used parts. Unless you can inspect it in person and mic. every lobe. It's a crap shoot.
I've got the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap and some Hedman long tube headers for mine. And I picked up a used $50 mid 60's Autolite 4100 1.12 carb that I'm going to rebuild and modify.
He'll have to decide how much of power increase he actually wants. Then he can go from there. You can stretch the budget but it usually takes more time. While hunting used parts and shopping for deals on new ones. So patience and a good flexible plan is the key.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 432
Likes: 34
From: West Fort Worth, TX
Thank you all for your input.
Baddad457, you mentioned to limit the cylinder heads intake valves to 1.94 with 58 CC. I found the below 1.90 and 58 AFR head. Couldn't find one that was 1.94.
You also mentioned for the camshaft to limit .550 lift and 225 @ .50 along with an EFI grind with wide LSA. I was also able to filter down on summit to "Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh., Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 ext, lobe Separation (degrees): 112.
Couldn't find a reference to EFI grind.
Is this acceptable within the specs or is there some detail that will not work well with my application? Thanks for your patients...this is my first experience with selecting aftermarket heads/camshaft.
I understand there are other items that go along with these two parts. I just need to figure this out and go from there.
HEADS
Brand: Airflow Research (AFR)
Manufacturer's Part Number: 1399
Part Type: Cylinder Heads
Product Line: AFR 165cc/185cc/195cc SBF Renegade 20 Degree Street/Strip Heads
Summit Racing Part Number: AFR-1399
Cylinder Head Style: Assembled
Cylinder Head Material: Aluminum
Intake Port Shape: Rectangular
Intake Valve Diameter (in): 1.900 in.
Cylinder Head Finish: Natural
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 58
CNC-Machined Combustion Chamber: Yes
Intake Runner Volume (cc): 165cc
Exhaust Runner Volume (cc): 68cc
CNC-Machined Intake Runner: Yes
CNC-Machined Exhaust Runner: Yes
Combustion Chamber Style:
Heart Intake Port Location: Standard
Exhaust Port Shape: Square
Exhaust Port Location: Standard
Spark Plug Style: Angle
Intake Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valve Diameter (in): 1.600 in.
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Maximum Valve Lift (in): 0.600 in.
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.290 in.
Damper Spring Included: Yes
Number of Springs Per Valve:
Dual Retainers Included: Yes
Retainer Material: Chromoly steel
Locks Included: Yes
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Studs Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Rocker Arms Included: No
Rocker Arm Nuts Included: No
Guideplates Included: Yes
Guideplate Pushrod Size: 5/16 in.
Valve Cover Mounting Style: Perimeter bolt
Accessory Bolt Holes Drilled: Yes
Intake Valve Angle: 20
Exhaust Valve Angle: 20
Valve Guides Included: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Bronze
Valve Seats Machined: Yes
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Ductile iron
Steam Holes Drilled: No
Oiling Style: Through pushrod
Machined for O-Ring: No
Heat Crossover: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair.
CAM SHAFT
Brand: Howards Cams
Manufacturer's Part Number: 222431-12
Part Type: Camshafts
Product Line: Howards Cams Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Summit Racing Part Number: HRS-222431-12
UPC: 840793110933
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,400-6,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 272
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 272
Advertised Duration: 272 int./272 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Camshaft Gear Attachment: 1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Valve Springs Required: Yes
Camshaft Manufacturers Description: Good idle, good midrange torque and horsepower. Needs 2,400+ stall.
Quantity: Sold individually.
Baddad457, you mentioned to limit the cylinder heads intake valves to 1.94 with 58 CC. I found the below 1.90 and 58 AFR head. Couldn't find one that was 1.94.
You also mentioned for the camshaft to limit .550 lift and 225 @ .50 along with an EFI grind with wide LSA. I was also able to filter down on summit to "Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh., Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 ext, lobe Separation (degrees): 112.
Couldn't find a reference to EFI grind.
Is this acceptable within the specs or is there some detail that will not work well with my application? Thanks for your patients...this is my first experience with selecting aftermarket heads/camshaft.
I understand there are other items that go along with these two parts. I just need to figure this out and go from there.
HEADS
Brand: Airflow Research (AFR)
Manufacturer's Part Number: 1399
Part Type: Cylinder Heads
Product Line: AFR 165cc/185cc/195cc SBF Renegade 20 Degree Street/Strip Heads
Summit Racing Part Number: AFR-1399
Cylinder Head Style: Assembled
Cylinder Head Material: Aluminum
Intake Port Shape: Rectangular
Intake Valve Diameter (in): 1.900 in.
Cylinder Head Finish: Natural
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 58
CNC-Machined Combustion Chamber: Yes
Intake Runner Volume (cc): 165cc
Exhaust Runner Volume (cc): 68cc
CNC-Machined Intake Runner: Yes
CNC-Machined Exhaust Runner: Yes
Combustion Chamber Style:
Heart Intake Port Location: Standard
Exhaust Port Shape: Square
Exhaust Port Location: Standard
Spark Plug Style: Angle
Intake Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valve Diameter (in): 1.600 in.
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Maximum Valve Lift (in): 0.600 in.
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.290 in.
Damper Spring Included: Yes
Number of Springs Per Valve:
Dual Retainers Included: Yes
Retainer Material: Chromoly steel
Locks Included: Yes
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Studs Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Rocker Arms Included: No
Rocker Arm Nuts Included: No
Guideplates Included: Yes
Guideplate Pushrod Size: 5/16 in.
Valve Cover Mounting Style: Perimeter bolt
Accessory Bolt Holes Drilled: Yes
Intake Valve Angle: 20
Exhaust Valve Angle: 20
Valve Guides Included: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Bronze
Valve Seats Machined: Yes
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Ductile iron
Steam Holes Drilled: No
Oiling Style: Through pushrod
Machined for O-Ring: No
Heat Crossover: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair.
CAM SHAFT
Brand: Howards Cams
Manufacturer's Part Number: 222431-12
Part Type: Camshafts
Product Line: Howards Cams Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Summit Racing Part Number: HRS-222431-12
UPC: 840793110933
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,400-6,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 272
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 272
Advertised Duration: 272 int./272 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Camshaft Gear Attachment: 1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Valve Springs Required: Yes
Camshaft Manufacturers Description: Good idle, good midrange torque and horsepower. Needs 2,400+ stall.
Quantity: Sold individually.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Thank you all for your input.
Baddad457, you mentioned to limit the cylinder heads intake valves to 1.94 with 58 CC. I found the below 1.90 and 58 AFR head. Couldn't find one that was 1.94.
You also mentioned for the camshaft to limit .550 lift and 225 @ .50 along with an EFI grind with wide LSA. I was also able to filter down on summit to "Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh., Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 ext, lobe Separation (degrees): 112.
Couldn't find a reference to EFI grind.
Is this acceptable within the specs or is there some detail that will no work well with my application? Thanks for your patients...this is my first experience with selecting aftermarket heads/camshaft.
I understand there are other items that go along with these two parts. I just need to figure this out and go from there.
HEADS
Brand: Airflow Research (AFR)
Manufacturer's Part Number: 1399
Part Type: Cylinder Heads
Product Line: AFR 165cc/185cc/195cc SBF Renegade 20 Degree Street/Strip Heads
Summit Racing Part Number: AFR-1399
Cylinder Head Style: Assembled
Cylinder Head Material: Aluminum
Intake Port Shape: Rectangular
Intake Valve Diameter (in): 1.900 in.
Cylinder Head Finish: Natural
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 58
CNC-Machined Combustion Chamber: Yes
Intake Runner Volume (cc): 165cc
Exhaust Runner Volume (cc): 68cc
CNC-Machined Intake Runner: Yes
CNC-Machined Exhaust Runner: Yes
Combustion Chamber Style:
Heart Intake Port Location: Standard
Exhaust Port Shape: Square
Exhaust Port Location: Standard
Spark Plug Style: Angle
Intake Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valve Diameter (in): 1.600 in.
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Maximum Valve Lift (in): 0.600 in.
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.290 in.
Damper Spring Included: Yes
Number of Springs Per Valve:
Dual Retainers Included: Yes
Retainer Material: Chromoly steel
Locks Included: Yes
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Studs Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Rocker Arms Included: No
Rocker Arm Nuts Included: No
Guideplates Included: Yes
Guideplate Pushrod Size: 5/16 in.
Valve Cover Mounting Style: Perimeter bolt
Accessory Bolt Holes Drilled: Yes
Intake Valve Angle: 20
Exhaust Valve Angle: 20
Valve Guides Included: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Bronze
Valve Seats Machined: Yes
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Ductile iron
Steam Holes Drilled: No
Oiling Style: Through pushrod
Machined for O-Ring: No
Heat Crossover: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair.
CAM SHAFT
Brand: Howards Cams
Manufacturer's Part Number: 222431-12
Part Type: Camshafts
Product Line: Howards Cams Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Summit Racing Part Number: HRS-222431-12
UPC: 840793110933
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,400-6,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 272
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 272
Advertised Duration: 272 int./272 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Camshaft Gear Attachment: 1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Valve Springs Required: Yes
Camshaft Manufacturers Description: Good idle, good midrange torque and horsepower. Needs 2,400+ stall.
Quantity: Sold individually.
Baddad457, you mentioned to limit the cylinder heads intake valves to 1.94 with 58 CC. I found the below 1.90 and 58 AFR head. Couldn't find one that was 1.94.
You also mentioned for the camshaft to limit .550 lift and 225 @ .50 along with an EFI grind with wide LSA. I was also able to filter down on summit to "Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh., Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 ext, lobe Separation (degrees): 112.
Couldn't find a reference to EFI grind.
Is this acceptable within the specs or is there some detail that will no work well with my application? Thanks for your patients...this is my first experience with selecting aftermarket heads/camshaft.
I understand there are other items that go along with these two parts. I just need to figure this out and go from there.
HEADS
Brand: Airflow Research (AFR)
Manufacturer's Part Number: 1399
Part Type: Cylinder Heads
Product Line: AFR 165cc/185cc/195cc SBF Renegade 20 Degree Street/Strip Heads
Summit Racing Part Number: AFR-1399
Cylinder Head Style: Assembled
Cylinder Head Material: Aluminum
Intake Port Shape: Rectangular
Intake Valve Diameter (in): 1.900 in.
Cylinder Head Finish: Natural
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 58
CNC-Machined Combustion Chamber: Yes
Intake Runner Volume (cc): 165cc
Exhaust Runner Volume (cc): 68cc
CNC-Machined Intake Runner: Yes
CNC-Machined Exhaust Runner: Yes
Combustion Chamber Style:
Heart Intake Port Location: Standard
Exhaust Port Shape: Square
Exhaust Port Location: Standard
Spark Plug Style: Angle
Intake Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valve Diameter (in): 1.600 in.
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Maximum Valve Lift (in): 0.600 in.
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.290 in.
Damper Spring Included: Yes
Number of Springs Per Valve:
Dual Retainers Included: Yes
Retainer Material: Chromoly steel
Locks Included: Yes
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Studs Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Rocker Arms Included: No
Rocker Arm Nuts Included: No
Guideplates Included: Yes
Guideplate Pushrod Size: 5/16 in.
Valve Cover Mounting Style: Perimeter bolt
Accessory Bolt Holes Drilled: Yes
Intake Valve Angle: 20
Exhaust Valve Angle: 20
Valve Guides Included: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Bronze
Valve Seats Machined: Yes
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Ductile iron
Steam Holes Drilled: No
Oiling Style: Through pushrod
Machined for O-Ring: No
Heat Crossover: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair.
CAM SHAFT
Brand: Howards Cams
Manufacturer's Part Number: 222431-12
Part Type: Camshafts
Product Line: Howards Cams Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Summit Racing Part Number: HRS-222431-12
UPC: 840793110933
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,400-6,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 272
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 272
Advertised Duration: 272 int./272 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.551 int./0.551 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Camshaft Gear Attachment: 1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Valve Springs Required: Yes
Camshaft Manufacturers Description: Good idle, good midrange torque and horsepower. Needs 2,400+ stall.
Quantity: Sold individually.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,015
Likes: 208
From: SoCal
I think the Edelbrock Performer heads have the 1.94 intake valves.
Just wondering, with that AFR 165 head and that cam with .551/.551 lift and .224/.224 duration, would it be necessary to open up the valve reliefs in the piston?
Just wondering, with that AFR 165 head and that cam with .551/.551 lift and .224/.224 duration, would it be necessary to open up the valve reliefs in the piston?
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Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
I would check the clearance but those dishes are pretty deep as they are.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,015
Likes: 208
From: SoCal
Sorry, just looked back to earlier postings (seemed so long ago) and realized you said this before.
My mind is set to the 5.0 engines, so not sure if they also have similarly dished pistons, or what their limits are for valve lift and duration.
My mind is set to the 5.0 engines, so not sure if they also have similarly dished pistons, or what their limits are for valve lift and duration.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
5.0's had flat tops with 4 eyebrows. 351 had a generous rectangular dish.
