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1963 F100 with 223 and 4 on floor. Sputtering and no power. Compression test (hot) was between 105 and 120 on 5/6 cylinders but #5 had 30 psi. Terrible gunk/sludge/buildup under valve cover. No broken or obviously weak springs.
I'm inclined to pull the head for milling and valve job but could also just yank the whole engine and get it rebuilt if the cylinders or rings/Pistons look bad.
I'm sure there's bad sludge in the engine.
so: should I just get it all rebuilt or should I rebuild the head only? What should I do next? I'm a newb with limited mechanical skills but I like to learn and I'm in no hurry. I could spend the money if I have to. Just looking for advice, opinions and commentary.
thanks in advance and apologies if this is old topic. If so, please direct me to a thread.
Last edited by ige1963; Nov 3, 2018 at 01:04 PM.
Reason: Add info
Chances are that you have a valve not sealing well. If you feel it has oil/sludge issues it would be worth at least doing a re-ring while the head is off. You could do the compression test again cold. See if the low cylinder does anything different. And if it is still low (which I would expect), maybe take a little engine oil, maybe an ounce or so and put in the the plug hole of the low cylinder. You want to coat the rings with oil. Turn engine by hand one turn to be sure you don't have too much in it, and then do that cyl compression test again. If it goes up a good amount the rings are toast, if it doesn't much change it is in the head. It is a lot easier just popping the head off than pulling the engine, so if it runs solid, no knocks or noises, you might get away with the head rebuild. If it has had poor maintenance for years, and lots of sludge, it could have a lot more wrong than you think.
My 240 ran OK, I wanted to replace gaskets and paint the engine. When I tore it down I found a bad cam, issues with valve stems being worn to the point of mushrooming on top, massive ridge on top of cylinder walls, after pulling pistons found 4 cracked pistons. I got a quote of around $1750 to make it new again. I bought a running 5.0 HO out of a mustang instead. I guess it is all up to whether you want the truck original, or how much you want to invest in it? It is a commitment swapping engine sizes though so if you consider that, be prepared!
Good luck, let us know how you make out!
I would skip the cold & oil part of the compression test and just right to a leak down test.
If you don't have a gauge set for this just run air into the clys when at TDC.
Listen for air leaking out the carb = bad intake valve, out the tail pipe = bad exh valve, out the breather bad rings or piston.
Might also want to pop off the radiator cap and give a listen there to for a bad head gasket.
Air going in the 1 low cly has to be going some where, it is up to you to find where.
Now to rebuild the head and / or motor will be up to what you find, what it will take to fix it and what shape the truck is in. If the truck is in really ruff shape body & drive train wise it would not pay to put any money into it as you will never get it back out. Now if I would only listen to what I say I would not have rebuilt, read cab off frame, my 81 F100 flare side. Mine did not need a motor / trany / rear axle rebuild but did need everything else.
Dave ----
If you find it's a valve or gasket issue, I'd pull the engine anyway and clean it out top to bottom.
Get all that sludge out of the returns and the pan and screen.
Thanks! All good info. I decided that regardless of what I found I would be pulling the head so I'm doing that. If it's cracked or too much to mill and re- valve, I might just do an engine swap with something that has been completely rebuilt. I have searched for rebuilt 223 or a remanufactured head (in case mine is bad) and haven't seen much.
Heres what might be a dumb question but... I know to remove push rods you loosen up the rocker and slide it out of the way. The rockers in the 223 aren't the same as most and are fixed. How do I get the push rods out?
not sure how bad sludge is but I expect it to be bad. I think it's been throwing oil out of the valve cover - I did pull the cover off and looked and it's pretty gunked up. I have pics but need to figure out how to post on this site. Mileage says 140K but I can't be sure that's accurate.
I don't know how long it's been run on unleaded gas either and I've read that unleaded gas is hard on exhaust valves and the head. if the head is messed up, a complete engine swap might be in order but I want to replace with another 223 so everything fits - I have looked for one but there doesn't seem to be any to be had. I suppose that's a bridge to cross when I get to it. I'm also not opposed to getting the existing engine completely rebuilt if I could find a shop to do it.
im already into the truck for more than it's worth but it has significant sentimental value so I will be keeping it regardless of what I have to do to make it run well.
Thanks for your interest in my project. This is a great forum with lots of knowledgeable people. As a rookie, I really appreciate the help!
T
John - this is the only pic of the rails I had in my photo album. I will snap a couple more when I can get down to my shop in a day or two. It's an easy build. I used red oak and stainless hardware. Same wood as the bed.
1963 F100 with 223 and 4 on floor. Sputtering and no power. Compression test (hot) was between 105 and 120 on 5/6 cylinders but #5 had 30 psi. Terrible gunk/sludge/buildup under valve cover. No broken or obviously weak springs.
This sounds like a valve or broken rings on that cylinder. It's likely a valve.
Originally Posted by ige1963
I'm inclined to pull the head for milling and valve job but could also just yank the whole engine and get it rebuilt if the cylinders or rings/Pistons look bad.
I'm sure there's bad sludge in the engine.
so: should I just get it all rebuilt or should I rebuild the head only? What should I do next? I'm a newb with limited mechanical skills but I like to learn and I'm in no hurry. I could spend the money if I have to. Just looking for advice, opinions and commentary.
thanks in advance and apologies if this is old topic. If so, please direct me to a thread.
This is what I would do.
If things look good. I would consider a " in chassis overhaul". That's what they used to do back then. It was quite common for these to be torn down Friday afternoon finished and ready to go by Sunday evening or early Monday morning after midnight. That is, if everything went well.
You can do the same if you do not mind some hard work and working in odd positions like under the truck.
Good is good. If something is in good working order, there's no need to spend a lot of money to make it be .....in good working order. I know that makes little sense but bear with me....
If all you need to do is a valve job....there's no need to rebuild the whole engine....
If all you need to do is replace the rings on that one cylinder....there's no need to to rebuild the whole engine.
That's what people used to do when they didn't have much money. The middle class, even upper middle class in the 60s would be way below poverty level today as far as lifestyle.
1. Study that shop manual.
2. Make sure to work safe....eye protection.....good jacks....good jack stands .....chocks.....help if needed (this stuff is heavy) ...common sense...this stuff can kill you so use your head.
3. Have your phone handy for photos. Have bags and a marker for bolts and parts. Tag all hoses and wires you take loose...You will not remember.
4. Study the manual again for each procedure.
5. At first this is diagnostic. You know that number 5 is suspect but do not be surprised and more importantly be looking for other problems.
6. Remove the valve covers and rocker shaft. When you remove the push rods.....tag with tape and have a block of wood with holes or some kind of fixture to keep them in order....Do all your parts this way.
7. Remove the head...it's very heavy. Of course the intake and all that jazz has to come off so photo, label and tag as suggested.
8. Don't break stuff. If something is not coming off.....make sure all the bolts are out instead of using the 10 foot pry bar.
9. Once the head is off take a look at the cylinders. Expect some scratches. While not good...it's not a deal killer. heavy gouges and scoring is. Too, look at the valves. If there's a major problem...you'll know it when you see it. If the damage is severe like a sunken (way up in the head) clover leaf shaped ex. valve.....it's time for shop work (valve seat replacement) or a new head.
10. You'll need a tool to compress the valve springs. Before that....It's a good idea to clean most of the gunk off the head.
11. Keep referring to the manual. You may want to dress the valve tips lightly with a file...sometimes they mushroom and if you try to force them out of the head, you could damage the guides. Keep the springs and valves and all that stuff in order.
12. If the valves and seat look intact you can see if they will clean up by lapping. Before that.....really clean up all your parts. Way back when, I used a stiff bristle brush and a tub with diesel or kerosene. My second tub had degreaser...(dish soap). Clean it very very well. get all the gunk out of the oil passages. Gun cleaning brushes can be used for these and stuff like the rocker shafts.
13. Lap the valves and see if they clean up. Oil the valve so the guide is lubed. You can use the suction cup tool or even a drill motor (cordess or plug in drill) if you are careful. Be sure not to get the grinding compound in the guide. Most of the time these will clean up well.
So now you have a clean head. All the valves have been lapped and show a good ring of seal contact. .....lest say all your head stuff cleaned up. What's next?
You may want to pull #5 rod and piston...
To do this, You'll have to drop the oil pan. If the top of the cylinder has a ridge that catches your fingernail.....You'll need a ridge reamer to prevent piston damage. Clean and Inspect.
If you have gone this far....You can do all six. You can find bore taper with a feeler gauge and a mathematical formula. This will tell if you need boring...The more taper you have the less mileage after overhaul...
You can check the rod bearings too ( plasti-gauge or mash gauge) and replace if necessary.....Mains too if you wish...
All of this can be in the truck. The 63 shop manual should have procedures for doing this in chassis.
Unleaded gas and seats.....
When valves wear, they get out out of adjustment. When they get out of adjustment they can burn. Fords and burnt valves are like peas and carrots. They burned back then...they still burn now. Hardened seats may be a good idea but IMHO, for a 223 I would call it good if the valve seats cleaned up.
Truing the head and block deck....
You can do that with a big flat mill file. If it does not clean up with a file...You'll know to get your head/block milled.
