Missed your reply again, sorry for that.

So to determine the cam situation, I would pull a valve cover, remove one rocker and push rod, and pull a lifter. If it has a roller it fits a roller cam, if it is solid bottom it is conventional? I have done this kind of stuff, but decades ago.

Matt B

 

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Sounds like a 5.0. Now you are going to have to start doing some detective work. You need to determine if that's a roller motor or not and that's something you will have to do with your own eyeballs. You might be able to remove a valve cover and look down a pushrod hole and see if you can make out if it has link bars or not. Any way it goes I'm pretty certain you are going to have to change to a different distributor.

 

Thanks for the information. My investigation continues. With a correct #1 cylinder location, and apparently correct firing order (the way it was, NOT what is on the intake manifold, the engine continues to start immediately an idle well (a bit loud with dual exhaust).

Timing WAS set at about 20-25 degrees before TDC. I have reset it to 10 degrees, and will take it for a test drive. When I revved the engine, the timing does advance.

All indications are that the distributor is wrong/partially disabled/ missing a computer/ etc. But it runs.

 

I took it for a ride - worse, though that was not unexpected. Truck would not go beyond 40MPH, though it accelerated well from slow speeds.

Still thinking this through. I know there is no computer attached. I know the spark advances some. I know it does not advance into the 30-40 degree range.

Am I correct in assuming that a properly-functioning EEC-IV has mechanical advance (inside the distributor) AND electronic advance (computer controlled)? I trust Crop's conclusions, but I am trying to understand the evidence in front of me.

This would explain my symptoms. Why I lack spark advance at speed.

Matt B

 

EEC= Electronic Engine Control, That distributor does not have vacuum or centrifugal advance the computer does it all. You're beating your head against the wall if you think that distributor is going to work without a computer and all the sensors. They have a limp mode and that's all you have right now.
I think you, like a lot of other folks are a victim of someone doing an engine swap with no clue about how to make it work.
Figure out what engine you have, roller or flat tappet.
Get rid of that distributor and if you're lucky in the end it might be drivable. Then you can start fixing all the other stuff that probably wasn't done right.

 

I will replace the distributor. I am 80 percent sure I have a roller cam. I removed two rockers and push rods, used a small rod to capture the lifter. The interior would spin, but the body of the lifter would not. My understanding (and previous experience) is that a non-roller lifter would spin within the bore. The steel gear on replacement distributors is apparently good for non-roller cams, and factory roller cams. I can think of no way to determine the origin of the cam without a tear-down and looking for numbers. I have considered removing the intake manifold, but my answer might come as easily by just positively identifying the engine.

I think I have a 5.0 engine, but not totally convinced yet. Surprisingly little information about identifying Ford 5.0 vs. 302. The 3-inch stroke seems to rule out the 351W. (Thank you for that!) The firing order as it is wired does not fit a 302, so I guess it is a 5.0.

But the thing that perplexes me - If spark advance is provided completely by the EEC system, how am I getting 15 degrees of advance without a computer? There are lots of web references about converting fuel-injection to carburetor for car builds. I would assume that this also involves computer-control to mechanical control. But nothing about how the EEC-IV distributor is addressed.

RE stuff not done right - stop lights not wired, lots of twisted wire ends with electrical tape, THREE filters on the fuel, brakes a complete mess, lots of missing lock washers, seat not fully bolted down, no door pulls, mismatched fuel sender and gauge, no relay on horn, trans downshift held together with baling wire, no license lights, bed corner flopping around due to missing washers, old parking brake cable seized, back glass seal too short and leaking, window glass damaged by buffer, steering column bearing destroyed by extra clamp, accessory belt way too tight...

A bit of bother, but I am getting an education! I LOVE a puzzle!

Matt B

 

Well you've got a pretty good looking truck. And if was born and raised in AZ. then you shouldn't have much rust if any. Sounds like you have a project though welcome to the club.
I'm not going to go into how to set the timing on that distributor since it's got to go anyway, you can read about it in your manual.
You most likely have a 5.0. You can look for date codes on the heads and block that will tell you when they were cast anyway. That should give you a ball park year figuring most parts were cast a least 30 days before they were machined. Plenty of stuff on the internet about how to read those date codes.
As far as the cam goes I believe that you can see the most forward lobe and lifter if you remove the distributor. You might have to use a mirror. The stock Ford roller cam uses a steel gear on the distributor. The flat tappet cams use a cast iron gear. The bronze gears and some of the composite gears are sacrificial, stay away from them they are for race engines. Be mindful of Chinese distributors the gear material isn't always what they say it is plus most of the ones I've checked had the gear on at the wrong dimension. Good Luck Sir!

 

Thanks Crop!

For anyone keeping up or that might follow later...

I am convinced that the firing order as wired is correct, and that the intake manifold (obviously replaced) is wrong. Based on the firing order alone, the engine could be a 351 or a 5.0. The stroke of 3" pretty-much makes it a 5.0. The intake numbers don't seem to match anything. Exhaust manifolds are 86-91 5.0. I have not found numbers on the heads yet.

Cam type - the lifters do not rotate in their bores, which suggests a roller cam. The push rods are 6.25 (or 6.272) which matches a stock roller cam engine. Standard cam apparently uses a length of 6.876.

I have removed the distributor to inspect the front of the cam. My "mirror-on-stick" is too large. My borescope won't turn quite enough to see what rests on the first lobe. The answer will be a dentist mirror and a good flashlight. I expect to see a roller cam. I can't tell the composition of the cam gear - looks like oily metal!

All indications are that the distributor is the cause of my woes. Plenty of non-computer ones out there. Apparently shaft length is important. Gear composition is important too!

Matt B

 

Based on your observation that the lifters won't turn in the bore and the shorter pushrod length, it's safe to say you have a roller cam, which means you need a steel or composite gear. The only year a steel gear was available on a carbureted 5.0 was 1985. Also, the steel gear has the same I.D. as the 351 Windsor at .5" which is larger than the older 302 size (.488 IIRC). Anyway, you will either need to find a 1985 distributor or get an aftermarket distributor that's compatible with a roller cam, or an aftermarket gear that will fit on an older Ford 302 distributor. The composite gears are crazy expensive but will work with either steel (roller) or iron (flat tappet) cams. All 302s/5.0 liters share the same shaft length; the 351W is much taller.

 

I was able to inspect the front lobe of the cam and the lifter with a dental mirror - roller cam.

The intake has been replaced, and has the wrong firing order - I strongly believe that the engine was a throttle body injection that was converted to carburetor.

In any case, I have ordered a distributor that is compatible with a factory roller cam. Interesting that the distributor of the distributor (!) claims a 5-inch shaft, and my OEM distributor has a 5.5-inch shaft. I suspect the difference is just a one inch versus one and a half inch overlap of the distributor and oil pump driveshaft, and will not be of consequence. I will measure ad fit carefully when it arrives.

If it all works out, I will post again with details.

Thanks for all your help!

Matt B

 

Matt, you likely have a late 5.0 there, truck engines past '94 got a roller cam with the HO firing order, it is also possible you have a 5.0HO which would have used that distributor but those are truck valve covers. You do not have a 351, the block is taller and wider so intake is wider and the base of the distributor sits about 1" below the intake manifold gasket surface. That distributor is from an early EFI motor(up to about '92) and if you are getting timing advance you must have an ignition box in there somewhere, who knows what the PO used to "make it work" this far. In any case once you get a new distributor and a proper ignition box you should have much better performance.

 

Thanks Conanski!

That info about my engine will be helpful. I cannot find an ignition box anywhere, but I suppose it is all moot with the new distributor on the way - GM-style HEI with one wire. It will be nice to go faster than 45 MPH.

Some parts of the truck are so nicely done. The frame-mounted fuel tank has welded pipes, a vent, a nicely-done side fill and a bottom-mount sender. The stop lights were just plain never hooked up!

I am doing this truck for my wife. I would be going through everything anyway. She has wanted an old truck for ages. She already has a list of people wanting rides in it.

Air conditioner coming, and it will take some engineering. More on that later.

Matt B

 

I should have mentioned that the EFI distributors had a longer shaft below the gear. That is why the difference in length. Just make sure the oil pump drive rod is fully engaged. I don't believe that will be an issue. Here is a page from Ford Racing on distributors and how to check the gear position it also points out some common problems they have encountered. Like I said in one of my other posts the Chinamen have a real problem getting that gear on in the right spot. So be sure and check that before you run it.

 

Thanks for that! New distributor at the post office - I will get it and get to it in a few days.

Matt B